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Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#131

Post by lormayna »

pastacacioepepe wrote: post #117
lormayna wrote: post #20

What about Israel? The tech scene is amazing, the weather is great and the taxes are lower than in Germany ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Israel ). Unless if you don't have Jewish roots, it can be hard to get a VISA. For quality of life, I would like to suggest Italy, but the salary are terrible low and the taxes are high. Moreover, the probable new government, will make immigration way more complex.

> Moreover, the probable new government, will make immigration way more complex. That's not a concern considering OP is European, he can move wherever he wants inside the union. If the right wing wins the elections they will (probably) tighten rules for poverty immigration from outside Europe. > the salary are terrible low and the taxes are high. That's true, but if you can find a well paying remote job and a nice pl…

> That's not a concern considering OP is European, he can move wherever he wants inside the union.

What's happened if an Italexit will happens?

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#132

Post by rich_sasha »

RomanPushkin wrote: post #119

Currently living in the US (citizen), originally from the Soviet Block, but I used to live in Spain (1 year), South-east Asia (4 years), and Germany (1 year) as well. Have been to other countries as well (Mexico, Dom.Republic, etc.). From my perspective, Germany is one of the best choices. There are few things that should be in the country you live: * Laws, police should work (well, to some degree). * Healthcare shou…

> Most of the island/equator countries don't have this option

Singapore comes to mind. I never lived there, and it's not exactly a democracy, but i guess this doesn't affect an expat.

I wonder what life is like in Hong Kong now. Awful no doubt if you are a pro democracy activist, but what about the rest? Certainly no shortage of warm weather too.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#133

Post by bartminton »

jbotz wrote: post #81
4dregress wrote: post #51

I just want to point out that it's probably not the best choice to move anywhere near the equator.

Because of global warming? Then I'd like to point out that the biggest changes in climate have been in the arctic and temperate regions so far, and that's likely to continue for some time. Yes, of course places that are already hotter are closer to becoming unlivably hot, but there are quite a few of places in the tropics that really aren't that hot; for one thing temperatures are more stable around the year. I live…

That's my thinking. What we witnessed over the last 30 years are more and more local maxima and extremes in regions, which typically have very mild weather. I spent significant amounts of time in a number of countries near the equator and do not recall such changes as we currently witness in Europe. But given the fact, that I have absolutely no expertise in the field, I might be totally wrong.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#134

Post by bartminton »

mellosouls wrote: post #53

I've never lived there myself (just visited) and I'm not sure to what extent they would meet your politics/tax criteria, but Australia seems to have some happy ex-pats there, and New Zealand. I've personally wondered about Melbourne or somewhere for myself at times...

We strongly consider New Zealand. Reasons are manyfold, but what from we know from friends living there, it's close to European life style but with an intact nature and mostly mild weather.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#135

Post by atmosx »

ihateolives wrote: post #72
Donckele wrote: post #60

Come on over to Greece and take a break.

Summers are insanely hot. Bureaucracy and inefficiency of getting things done is whole another level compared to northern parts of Europe. You have to know a guy who knows a guy. Greece is 33rd in world corruption index between Saudi Arabia and Malaysia while Germany is 10th. Walkability is not a thing in the cities, especially if they want to take long walks with their baby in stroller. People are friendly though an…

My two cents:

- Getting things done in Germany is equally problematic. Bureaucracy exists there as well. - There is large part of the public sector that works better than anyone gives them credit for. Same with public schools and healthcare. Greece produces twice the number of scientists compared to the average on OECD countries, you can't do that without an at least "good" education system.

Unfortunately corruption is rampant and the current gov only made things worst on this front.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#136

Post by bartminton »

foobarian wrote: post #42
bartminton wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Europe, especially Spain or Portugal are on our list. France not so much, since it suffers from very similar issues than Germany. Regarding the equatorial zone: Agree - especially considering, that we have roughly 30 to 35 years more to live, it would have to be a spot that "still exists". We're aware of that, also of the fact, that one can not escape one's own problems by escaping a certain place. But since our…

I might consider Hawaii or Massachusetts. School especially would be excellent in the latter, when time comes. Progressive and liberal politics. Cold winters unfortunately but at least the gas does not come from a hostile superpower. One other thing about most US locales, is property taxes are relatively high, and they fund the local government (i.e. your town - they pay for police, school, etc.) which is something a…

Hawaii is on our list as well. Unfortunately it's very hard to get a working visa for both of us. Otherwise it would be a great option.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#137

Post by sfusato »

mellosouls wrote: post #53

I've never lived there myself (just visited) and I'm not sure to what extent they would meet your politics/tax criteria, but Australia seems to have some happy ex-pats there, and New Zealand. I've personally wondered about Melbourne or somewhere for myself at times...

Oh, well, if you completely forget the last 2 years.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#138

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

RomanPushkin wrote: post #122
isubasinghe wrote: post #112

Come down to Australia. The tech scene is just CRUD apps but quality of life is pretty amazing. Comparable to Switzerland for median income people imo, Switzerland is still better if you are poor but don't think that applies here, since you alone on a Software Eng would put your family to above average income. Relatively low tax (caps off at 30% for most people if/when the new tax legislation goes through, perhaps no…

There is no freedom in Australia, the government is doing whatever they want to people. Look at how they handled COVID: rolled out restrictions, punishing their own citizen to a degree any "normal" country/government wouldn't do, etc.

Street arrests for imprisonment in quarantine will take a while for me to shake from my memories of AUS.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#139

Post by rich_sasha »

bartminton wrote: post #27
Matthias247 wrote: post #23

Having moved from germany to canada (Vancouver BC) in 2017, I can tell you that "quality of life" is highly subjective, and a lot of things in germany work far better than it seems - but you will only notice it if you have anything to compare against. E.g. [online] shopping and stock availability is so much better in germany, and you only notice what a privilege it is to get everything you need in 1 day once it's tak…

You touch a number of very important points here. Thanks for that. We're aware of the fact, that the overall situation in many countries in the world is much, much worse. So it's kind of a luxury problem. What is actually a challenge, is that I work as a freelancer for 20 years now and still have to go a long way to secure my private pension. I once calculated my personal "real" tax rate in Germany, and ended up at a…

One thing that's really hard to compare when looking at taxes is the quality of public services you get.

UK has not low taxes by any measure, but certainly lower than eg Germany, at 200k you're looking at effective tax rate of about 35-40% all in. But state schools are a lottery and shut down for 13 weeks a year. Healthcare is good if you can get seen but otherwise it's the private health insurance. Public transport is expensive. Social security in this segment of earnings is non-existent, you would be ineligible for many things (because "earn too much"), unemployment benefits only available if you have 0 savings left and so on.

I'm not sure I'd recommend the UK though it's less bad an option than it seems, it's just a demo.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#140

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

2143 wrote: post #83

1. Every country on Earth has its own problems. 2. If you move outside of Europe, the culture is going to be vastly different that what you're used to in Germany. While the problems you faced in Germany may get solved, you will run into new problems. Also, aren't Germans supposed to be well organized, disciplined, punctual etc? Most countries near the equator — despite being wonderful in their own unique ways — aren'…

> However, I'm not entirely sure about the software developer scene over there though.

Like getting into a time machine, for the most part.

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