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Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European countries are actually a very good option. Moving there is no problem at all, since we simply can move anywhere in Europe. It would have to be somewhere in the south tho, since we're looking for a much more relaxed lifestyle. We've never been to Malta or Cyprus so far, but both get onto our list. Thank you!

Have a look at Greece, I've found it extremely welcoming and reasonably affordable.

:+1

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#122

Come down to Australia. The tech scene is just CRUD apps but quality of life is pretty amazing. Comparable to Switzerland for median income people imo, Switzerland is still better if you are poor but don't think that applies here, since you alone on a Software Eng would put your family to above average income. Relatively low tax (caps off at 30% for most people if/when the new tax legislation goes through, perhaps no…

There is no freedom in Australia, the government is doing whatever they want to people. Look at how they handled COVID: rolled out restrictions, punishing their own citizen to a degree any "normal" country/government wouldn't do, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the decision to leave instead of trying to engage and improve things is pretty black and white mentality in itself, isn't it? You've got a point here. Yes, it's giving up. And to be honest, we both gave up. But since we're responsible for our little one, we still try to make the best of it, hence want to restart somewhere else. But I get your point. It's just that we both spent all of our energy over the last 2…

If that's the case then maybe instead of emigrating (which comes with a new set of problems) you may want to consider simply scaling back your ambition to 'improve things in all sorts of different dimensions' because you and your s.o. are just two individuals against an immense backdrop with huge inertia. The people we look up to because they are typically painted as the agents of social change tend to be the ones wh…

I admit, I like your point of view very much. If you are not already, you'd make up for a very good leader. In the end we did not yet make a decision to leave. We're juggling different ideas and that thread here opened up a new pathes to think through. The unknown unknowns so to say.

Thank you.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "politics, social life, social net" > I think it will be hard to recommend depending on your exact positions on these. We're both educated and open towards a liberal, future oriented society. Same goes for paying taxes, since the "overall standards" in Germany are still very high. Nevertheless, the last 10 years spit society, family and friends. Hardly any healthy discussion culture, you're either on the one or the…

I'm German living on the US west coast for close to 15 years now. What you are describing sounds a lot like the problems we are having here. I do wonder if that's how it now is in most countries. I always thought of Germany as having lower pay but higher quality of life. Very disappointing that that's eroded. I'd be very curious to hear where you end up, since it sounds like we are sharing similar criteria.

I guess, many people share our current point of view, and yes, it's not only the german society which is affected. From a german perspective looking at the US or UK makes me feel very sorry. The leading countries of the free world seem to be on a decline, and that makes me very sad. However, the situation I describe, is only what I personally perceive. It's in no way objective, so Germany might still be in a "good shape" seen from whatever angle. It's just that we're looking for a better place to live, but did neither consider the US nor the UK for above reasons. Dank und Grüße

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#125
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "politics, social life, social net" > I think it will be hard to recommend depending on your exact positions on these. We're both educated and open towards a liberal, future oriented society. Same goes for paying taxes, since the "overall standards" in Germany are still very high. Nevertheless, the last 10 years spit society, family and friends. Hardly any healthy discussion culture, you're either on the one or the…

I feel you, but I'd recommend taking a step back, breath in, breath out, look at the government budget, and realise that the plans you may not agree with your government only add up to 1% of those "hard earned taxes". Somehow, in the era with universal access to raw data discussions seem to never have been so polarised. But I'm afraid that's the same anywhere :-( I still there's a few places better than Germany to li…

> and realise that the plans you may not agree with your government only add up to 1%

I wish, I could afford your optimism. :) IMHO Germany is getting deconstructed rapidly, and if one of the leading European countries suffers the breakdown I expect, I see nothing but dark clouds on the European sky. Europe and especially Germany as part of the free, western world need to be leaders trying to solve the ecological and economical challenges ahead of us. But when you want to solve such a huge number of problems, it's not wise to burn down your whole country beforehand.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#126
Take a look at Chania, Crete Greece. You can setup a corporation in Greece and work as a contractor for local and foreign companies. That will get you 22% tax. Assuming you make more than 80k / year (after taxes) you'll be on the high-end. Housing is expensive for Greek standards but I'm pretty sure that you will be able to afford it. It is an island but pretty big. Has hospitals, universities, etc. Chania is a small town but 6 months a year is flooded with tourists so appears to be much larger and always vibrant. The sea and scenery in Crete is outstanding. Especially the canyons.

Cons: Infrastructure in Greece is poor. Internet services are considerably more expensive and public transport is not good compared to central Europe. Streets are poorly maintained as well.

Pros: The food is amazing, best you've had. Any kind of crops will grow there and will be tasty. You'll be living next to the sea, you'll be the most "popular" member of your extended family... Everybody will want to "pay a visit" as often as possible. People are pretty friendly, crazy at the same time but really open. The gov is actively trying to destroy the healthcare system but it is still average.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#127
post #83

1. Every country on Earth has its own problems. 2. If you move outside of Europe, the culture is going to be vastly different that what you're used to in Germany. While the problems you faced in Germany may get solved, you will run into new problems. Also, aren't Germans supposed to be well organized, disciplined, punctual etc? Most countries near the equator — despite being wonderful in their own unique ways — aren'…

IMO totally valid points, and of course, we're aware that you can run away from "your problems" only to a certain degree. I also agree, that "renewed appreciation" might wait for us sometime in the future. Would be happy about it. KL is actually a very interesting recommendation. I've been there for a few days and enjoyed Malaysia very much. We currently have the Canarian Islands on the top of our list - it's still E…

The Canary Islands do have many nice places, it’s surprising how many different ecosystems one can find there, even within a single island.

Be aware though, that there is an increasing number of unassimilated immigrants. It’s a good idea to research the different areas in advance when picking where to live.

Also taxes in Spain are bad and getting worse, but from my limited experience (Spaniard living in Germany) it ends up being roughly a draw compared to Germany. It might well be that at the higher income brackets it’s an advantage, will be glad to hear about your experience if you end up moving there because going back to Spain is something I think about frequently.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price for small houses (often in terrible condition) around Berlin hovers in the range of 700-1000 T€, so if you don't have a lot of capital it can be hard. Banks like to charge freelancers a premium on the interest rate (as they can supposedly lose their income anytime, which often is just an excuse to extract more money from them...) or outright refuse to give them a loan unless they can provide a guarantee (e.…

Totally with you regarding all points you made. I believe in a horrible recession not only in Germany but also Europe lasting for longer than just 2 or 3 years. I also do believe, that the totally overheated housing market will crash very badly, which might open up interesting opportunities, once it happened. Still, all the other problems remained. However, thanks for your thoughts.

I'm with you with a big European recession. But I'm not sure about a big enough crash of the housing market, I think they will do whatever to keep the price up

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#129
post #6

You are more or less describing the Canary Islands. You can live there talking English only, and there will be probably opportunities of work for your wife (that should however learn to speak at least functional Spanish). Remote working for you, however, I don't think there is much occupation related to your field.

I lived on the Canarias for 3 years way back in the 90s. Loved it, but I guess it is totally different today. Nevertheless, especially Gran Canaria is on top of our list right now. It's still Europe, moving there is super easy. Weather is fine. International school should be there and a flight to Germany is a little more than 4 hours. So far sounds like an option.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#130
post #97

What about Israel? The tech scene is amazing, the weather is great and the taxes are lower than in Germany ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Israel ). Unless if you don't have Jewish roots, it can be hard to get a VISA. For quality of life, I would like to suggest Italy, but the salary are terrible low and the taxes are high. Moreover, the probable new government, will make immigration way more complex.

>Moreover, the probable new government, will make immigration way more complex. Immigration from Germany? Both Italy and Germany are countries in the EU, hadn't you noticed.

Fratelli d'Italia (the party that is going to win the election and lead the next government) propose in his program to exit from EU, even if not explictly.
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