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Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#111

What about Israel? The tech scene is amazing, the weather is great and the taxes are lower than in Germany ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Israel ). Unless if you don't have Jewish roots, it can be hard to get a VISA. For quality of life, I would like to suggest Italy, but the salary are terrible low and the taxes are high. Moreover, the probable new government, will make immigration way more complex.

We don't have jewish roots. So not only visa would be quite problematic.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#112
Come down to Australia. The tech scene is just CRUD apps but quality of life is pretty amazing. Comparable to Switzerland for median income people imo, Switzerland is still better if you are poor but don't think that applies here, since you alone on a Software Eng would put your family to above average income.

Relatively low tax (caps off at 30% for most people if/when the new tax legislation goes through, perhaps not for a Software Engineer though).

Winter in Melbourne hits 0 at the coldest, mostly above 4 degrees though. Summer can get quite hot, high 30s and the occasional 40.

But yeah, I am in Switzerland atm and I find the quality of life similar, really made me appreciate home (Australia) more as well because I thought this was the norm before coming to Europe.

Don't get me wrong we still have selfish self serving politicians but quality of life for most Australian's is high.

Cost of living will probably be higher than Berlin though, Melbourne/Sydney is comparable to Zürich in expense as well, but taxes will likely be lower.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#113
> that allows us to buy / rent a quality house (which is close to impossible in Berlin even making 200k/year [due to neck breaking tax and cost of living])

Just, how? If you have 200k/year, taxes and Berlin's low cost of living should have almost no impact on you. That's like more than than 4 times the median German salary, in one of the cheapest city of the country (rent is of course expensive, but that's mostly depending on the neighborhood). I spent 3 years in Berlin and now live in Hamburg, I cannot imagine that you have problem finding a decent place and living a very comfortable life there given your income.

Anyway, if you do not like Berlin, there is a lot of other places in Germany with different politics, taxes, and social life.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#114

Interesting thread, many insights on a topic where wisdom is hard won. That said, I read OPs complaints about polarization and taxes, and I wonder if Latin America might address some of these issues? (Slightly tongue in cheek) Your status as a foreigner will make people more forgiving of your ignorance of local political issues, and also interested when you make comparisons to foreign perspectives (especially coming…

> That said, I read OPs complaints about polarization and taxes, and I wonder if Latin America might address some of these issues Thank you, that somehow nails it. Some countries on our to-be-checked-list are in Latin America. A personal minus is, that both of us don't speak spanish or portugese. Nevertheless we will dig deeper. Thanks for your opinion.

Belize (formerly British Honduras) is an English-speaking country in the region.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#115

What about Israel? The tech scene is amazing, the weather is great and the taxes are lower than in Germany ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Israel ). Unless if you don't have Jewish roots, it can be hard to get a VISA. For quality of life, I would like to suggest Italy, but the salary are terrible low and the taxes are high. Moreover, the probable new government, will make immigration way more complex.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that work? I mean the tax rate is progressive and as a freelancer you only pay the normal income tax. If the tax authority insists you're a Gewerbe you'll have to pay Gewerbesteuer as well, but most of that can be deduced from your income tax already. Just wondering how you get at this number, calculating with 240 T€ and tax class 1 I only arrive around 40 % income tax.

You're right on progression and Gewerbesteuer deduction. Nevertheless I pay tax rate "Höchststeuersatz" at 45%. Add "Solidarzuschlag" and you end up very close to 50%.

Yeah this is not really how you do the math (and your salary should count as expense for the Gewerbesteuer no?)

You should calculate the end % of tax. The 45% is the marginal rate. Also the solidarity tax has a ceiling

(And not everything is charged the full VAT rate)

And in the end, that number doesn't mean much? Switzerland for example had much lower tax, but your cost of life shot up. Some other places your income tax might be lower but sales taxes are higher.

It's all relative

Edit, as an example for 200kEUR in Berlin your tax will be ~ 43% (Cat I) - for 1MEUR/yr you're paying 46%

(this is not so much about Berlin or Germany - the math is the same everywhere - it's about people thinking that the rate means they pay that % of their salary)

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#117

What about Israel? The tech scene is amazing, the weather is great and the taxes are lower than in Germany ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Israel ). Unless if you don't have Jewish roots, it can be hard to get a VISA. For quality of life, I would like to suggest Italy, but the salary are terrible low and the taxes are high. Moreover, the probable new government, will make immigration way more complex.

> Moreover, the probable new government, will make immigration way more complex.

That's not a concern considering OP is European, he can move wherever he wants inside the union.

If the right wing wins the elections they will (probably) tighten rules for poverty immigration from outside Europe.

> the salary are terrible low and the taxes are high.

That's true, but if you can find a well paying remote job and a nice place to live you'll have a good life in Italy. Just don't rely on the state and you'll be fine.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#119
Currently living in the US (citizen), originally from the Soviet Block, but I used to live in Spain (1 year), South-east Asia (4 years), and Germany (1 year) as well. Have been to other countries as well (Mexico, Dom.Republic, etc.).

From my perspective, Germany is one of the best choices. There are few things that should be in the country you live:

* Laws, police should work (well, to some degree).

* Healthcare should be decent.

* Shouldn't be too cold.

Most of the island/equator countries don't have this option. Once you face a legal issue, you will want to run a country with a law system that, for example, works the different way to locals vs immigrants (like Mexico).

I was thinking about moving from the US to Germany/Netherlands multiple times in the last few years.

Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?

#120
post #58

what are your top 3 issues with berlin? germany and berlin always seemed to offer great quality of life. i’m from europe too. how can you not afford a house in germany with a 200k/year salary? for less than 500k you should be able to find something nice? even if you pay 50% tax. and you have 2 incomes. in the US real estate on the east and west coast is insanely expensive and 1.5MM plus for a very basic house. nothin…

The price for small houses (often in terrible condition) around Berlin hovers in the range of 700-1000 T€, so if you don't have a lot of capital it can be hard. Banks like to charge freelancers a premium on the interest rate (as they can supposedly lose their income anytime, which often is just an excuse to extract more money from them...) or outright refuse to give them a loan unless they can provide a guarantee (e.…

Totally with you regarding all points you made. I believe in a horrible recession not only in Germany but also Europe lasting for longer than just 2 or 3 years. I also do believe, that the totally overheated housing market will crash very badly, which might open up interesting opportunities, once it happened. Still, all the other problems remained. However, thanks for your thoughts.
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