Earlier quoted context omitted.
I loved the Canary Islands ( I was only there for 2 days though ). Seems like it's big enough to have both big cities and small towns. And the food was amazing.
I know that being a tourist in Canary Islands is fun but is it a good country for a German to move to permanently? Does it have the kind of infrastructure and healthcare Germany has?
Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?
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Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?
#92Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?
#93This is a bit rant-y, and some of this may be US-centric but I think it will apply to equatorial countries as well. I think you should totally move abroad - if you stay for only 1-2 years you'll not want even to move back, after 5-10 years you start to appreciate Germany, wait 10-20 and you'll miss it.
All that is to say, you should definitely try to move abroad and see if you can build a life there. At the very least it will absolutely enrich your life with all these new experiences and recast how you see your own country/society. And if you like it and want to permanently settle, even better! Also, with risk there's usually opportunity, I would think equatorial islands may have demand for your wife's skills e.g.
So now to the ranting... the high taxes imo (at least partially) allow for:
- reasonable equality and social equity through redistribution,
- low crime and violence (also social cohesion),
- excellent "broad" education and opportunities (i.e. not ivy league-level education but very good, affordable and low competition for many),
- generally more "care-free" lifestyle (social safety net, imo sensible regulations, medical system, education system are all less stress-inducing)
Conversely:
- Taxes: you pay lower taxes, but then you spend a lot of money on health-care and education. Sure you can cut corners (esp. on health-care when you're young) but then you start worrying about going to this or that doctor or getting this procedure or not.
- Education: get ready to pay 20% extra for houses in "good school districts" or spend a good chunk of salary on private schools (which is probably what you're looking at outside the US). The best-of-the-best education is going to be quite a bit better than the average in Germany, but most of German education is "good" and free. And then private school means your kids grow up around mostly "rich kids", personally not my ideal situation. Also, families in the Bay Area are interviewing with their 4-5 year old kids for the "best" kindergardens/pre-schools, I see very high pressure early on. Everything is so competitive, but especially "top-tier" education.
- Equality/Equity: Living life at the top is much nicer than in Germany. But the downside is that there's going to be parts of town that you probably don't want to walk to/through at night - depending on your chosen region you may not want to walk, period, or take public transit (if there even is public transit). Fortunately, your really nice house will probably be in a gated community so you automatically avoid half the population (/s).
- High salaries: generally you work a lot more, there's a reason so many people dream of retiring to an island. Fewer vacation days or no structured vacation at all. Less time with kids. Though that wouldn't apply when working for a EU company probably. Great for a while if yo plan to move somewhere lower-cost-of-living eventually and can save up, but for most people the high-paying jobs are in high-COL areas so quality of life isn't even strictly better (yes, remote - but I don't think it's more 5% even here on HN). Sure you now drive a Tesla, but you're still not saving a lot and spending all that money on your rent/house, kids, groceries, and "entertainment" - just on a "higher" level.
- Regulation: depending on your location get ready to never drink tap water because the water supply is under/un-regulated, and e.g. get ready to do your own research on food additives, vitamins+supplements and so on because they're largely unregulated and a free-for-all. There will be no more great renters-protections, consumer-protections. Again, this is fine for a couple years but eventually starts to grind you down.
- Groceries/food: You might miss some of the stuff you grew up with, not at first but eventually. Also, again cost - German groceries are ridiculously cheap. $5 mozarealla ball? $5 bar of chocolate? $10 for paper towels/toilet paper? Also, a lot of stuff is just "different" and not what you're used to. Every time I go back, I go to Aldi/LIDL and smile when I've bought my weekly groceries and it's less than $200-300. Yes, we spend about $600-1000 on groceries alone a month for a larger fam ($600 if you go do Trader Joe's and don't splurge, $1000 if you order Whole Foods and have it delivered)
- Housing: You will probably get a lot more "size" for you money, but quality may not be what you're used to from Germany. I've seen huge $2M homes with only single-pane windows ($200-300 on heating every month in the colder months) and foundations that shift, luxury $1.7M condos in SF that have water roof/siding leaks within 10 years of being built and so on.
Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
VAT + Income Tax + Socials?
Income tax + business tax pile up to 50% already. I don't pay social taxes by choice, hence I do not benefit from the social net. If I add up all other taxes then, I end up pretty close at 70%. Meaning mostly VAT, taxes on gas and oil, alcohol, tobacco, final withholding tax on stock and crypto investments and speculation, vehicle tax, electricity tax. All in all there are close to 40 different types of tax, but we d…
Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?
#95what are your top 3 issues with berlin? germany and berlin always seemed to offer great quality of life. i’m from europe too. how can you not afford a house in germany with a 200k/year salary? for less than 500k you should be able to find something nice? even if you pay 50% tax. and you have 2 incomes. in the US real estate on the east and west coast is insanely expensive and 1.5MM plus for a very basic house. nothin…
But things might finally turn around a bit with the interest rate hike and looming recession, if you have some capital you might be able to grab some good real estate soon, at least if you don't have to be square in the center of Berlin (which will definitely stay expensive).
Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?
#96Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?
#97What about Israel? The tech scene is amazing, the weather is great and the taxes are lower than in Germany ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Israel ). Unless if you don't have Jewish roots, it can be hard to get a VISA. For quality of life, I would like to suggest Italy, but the salary are terrible low and the taxes are high. Moreover, the probable new government, will make immigration way more complex.
Immigration from Germany?
Both Italy and Germany are countries in the EU, hadn't you noticed.
Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "politics, social life, social net" > I think it will be hard to recommend depending on your exact positions on these. We're both educated and open towards a liberal, future oriented society. Same goes for paying taxes, since the "overall standards" in Germany are still very high. Nevertheless, the last 10 years spit society, family and friends. Hardly any healthy discussion culture, you're either on the one or the…
Quoted post unavailable.
Also, could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is also in the site guidelines.
You needn't use your real name, of course, but for HN to be a community, users need some identity for other users to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?
#991. Every country on Earth has its own problems. 2. If you move outside of Europe, the culture is going to be vastly different that what you're used to in Germany. While the problems you faced in Germany may get solved, you will run into new problems. Also, aren't Germans supposed to be well organized, disciplined, punctual etc? Most countries near the equator — despite being wonderful in their own unique ways — aren'…
Re: Ask HN: Leaving Germany – where to find quality of life as experienced engineer?
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
Income tax + business tax pile up to 50% already. I don't pay social taxes by choice, hence I do not benefit from the social net. If I add up all other taxes then, I end up pretty close at 70%. Meaning mostly VAT, taxes on gas and oil, alcohol, tobacco, final withholding tax on stock and crypto investments and speculation, vehicle tax, electricity tax. All in all there are close to 40 different types of tax, but we d…
How does that work? I mean the tax rate is progressive and as a freelancer you only pay the normal income tax. If the tax authority insists you're a Gewerbe you'll have to pay Gewerbesteuer as well, but most of that can be deduced from your income tax already. Just wondering how you get at this number, calculating with 240 T€ and tax class 1 I only arrive around 40 % income tax.