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Honestly: Does Glorifying Sickness Deter Healing?

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Re: Honestly: Does Glorifying Sickness Deter Healing?

#41

Post by tidenly »

feet wrote: post #35
codemonkey-zeta wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's absolutely true that mental illness is being destigmatized, it's also true that large parts of this community are indeed "faking it", see /r/fakedisordercringe or search "fake disorder cringe" on YouTube. In totality this is probably just part of the pendulum swing, and as awareness of fake disorder cringe grows, and as mental illness actually becomes "just normal" we will also see this phenomenon slowly d…

Faking a mental disorder is a mental disorder https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factitious_disorder

Munchausen requires the person isn't doing it for some kind of personal gain in the DSM - which social media credit and clout could be classified as.

Re: Honestly: Does Glorifying Sickness Deter Healing?

#42

Post by diogenes_of_ak »

Waterluvian wrote: post #3

I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t have my finger on the pulse of what’s chic, but this line: “…“the gentrification of disability,” how sickness became chic…“ is quite something.

I am somewhat “disabled” now (the hell with that moniker), there’s nothing chic about it.

I’ll get better or die trying, but there’s a lot of confusion as to what all this means by both those well meaning and those who are assholes.

Re: Honestly: Does Glorifying Sickness Deter Healing?

#43

Post by [deleted] »

dane-pgp wrote: post #16
thaumasiotes wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/book-review-crazy-like... > Around the Meiji Restoration, when everyone was obsessed with how great foreign stuff was, Japanese medical students went to Germany, learned psychiatry, came back to Japan, and told everyone they were neurasthenic. Being neurasthenic became first a fashion, then a class marker. The idea was that neurasthenics were people who were working too…

> psychiatrists felt obligated to restigmatize this mental disorder in hopes of limiting its adoption Or, to put it another way, they felt obligated to shame people into not seeking treatment, in hopes of not having to admit that they didn't know how to help their patients. Fewer patients, happier doctors, better metrics. Everyone wins, right?

[deleted]

Re: Honestly: Does Glorifying Sickness Deter Healing?

#45

Post by feet »

tidenly wrote: post #41
feet wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Faking a mental disorder is a mental disorder https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factitious_disorder

Munchausen requires the person isn't doing it for some kind of personal gain in the DSM - which social media credit and clout could be classified as.

> In either case, the perpetrator's motive is to perpetrate factitious disorders, either as a patient or by proxy as a caregiver, in order to attain (for themselves or for another) a patient's role. Malingering differs fundamentally from factitious disorders in that the malingerer simulates illness intending to obtain a material benefit or avoid an obligation or responsibility

Personally, I would not consider clout in mental health communities to be 'material benefit'

Re: Honestly: Does Glorifying Sickness Deter Healing?

#46

Post by [deleted] »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #24
dane-pgp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> psychiatrists felt obligated to restigmatize this mental disorder in hopes of limiting its adoption Or, to put it another way, they felt obligated to shame people into not seeking treatment, in hopes of not having to admit that they didn't know how to help their patients. Fewer patients, happier doctors, better metrics. Everyone wins, right?

> to put it another way, they felt obligated to shame people into not seeking treatment, in hopes of not having to admit that they didn't know how to help their patients. On the contrary, shaming people into not seeking treatment is how they were helping them. Prevention is the best cure, after all.

[deleted]

Re: Honestly: Does Glorifying Sickness Deter Healing?

#47

Post by thrown_22 »

dane-pgp wrote: post #16
thaumasiotes wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See also: https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/book-review-crazy-like... > Around the Meiji Restoration, when everyone was obsessed with how great foreign stuff was, Japanese medical students went to Germany, learned psychiatry, came back to Japan, and told everyone they were neurasthenic. Being neurasthenic became first a fashion, then a class marker. The idea was that neurasthenics were people who were working too…

> psychiatrists felt obligated to restigmatize this mental disorder in hopes of limiting its adoption Or, to put it another way, they felt obligated to shame people into not seeking treatment, in hopes of not having to admit that they didn't know how to help their patients. Fewer patients, happier doctors, better metrics. Everyone wins, right?

>Or, to put it another way, they felt obligated to shame people into not seeking treatment, in hopes of not having to admit that they didn't know how to help their patients.

And yet suicide contagion is one of the few statistically significant results in the social sciences. If people are willing to kill themselves because others like them did on the news what's convincing themselves they are really sad in comparison?

Re: Honestly: Does Glorifying Sickness Deter Healing?

#48

Post by thenerdhead »

While the placebo effect definitely does exist, I do wonder if a sense of agency (i.e. having the sense of control over your sickness) also has a similar positive effect?

The reason I ask is I've read many books about mental health over the last couple years. The more modern ones are all about acceptance and wearing them as a badge of honor. The timeless ones tend to talk about overcoming/controlling them by having a sense of agency.

I'm not particularly proud or fond of wearing my problems as an identity. I think thoughts are more powerful than we believe. Sure we should absolutely talk about them openly, but how many people make themselves more sick because of their thoughts? I found myself in this pattern for awhile because I instilled the identity that I was sick.

We all face the vicissitudes of the human condition. We all get to choose how we perceive them.

Re: Honestly: Does Glorifying Sickness Deter Healing?

#49

Post by zach_garwood »

kradeelav wrote: post #17
Waterluvian wrote: post #3

I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t have my finger on the pulse of what’s chic, but this line: “…“the gentrification of disability,” how sickness became chic…“ is quite something.

It's true. Certain circles of tumblr, tiktok, and twitter have made it "fashionable" to have mental disorders among themselves in an audience for victim points. (The uncharitable side of me would add "because physical disorders aren't so easily faked".) This obviously does not negate my sympathy for those with the real disorders - I have some as well. It's enraging to see the real stuff be treated so lightly though.

> Certain circles of tumblr, tiktok, and twitter

If you go to the freakshow, of course you'll see some freaks.

Re: Honestly: Does Glorifying Sickness Deter Healing?

#50

Post by codemonkey-zeta »

Spivak wrote: post #36
codemonkey-zeta wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's absolutely true that mental illness is being destigmatized, it's also true that large parts of this community are indeed "faking it", see /r/fakedisordercringe or search "fake disorder cringe" on YouTube. In totality this is probably just part of the pendulum swing, and as awareness of fake disorder cringe grows, and as mental illness actually becomes "just normal" we will also see this phenomenon slowly d…

You can’t use those places on the internet as evidence for anything en mass. Those “point and laugh” subreddits are just the internets eternal two minutes of hate. You would be insane for basing your opinion of back people based on, the now banned, /r/c*ntown. If your argument is “there exist people who purposely fake various disorders” then sure you’re absolutely right. You can find all breeds of crazy if you go loo…

I agree with you on everything you just said. My comment was directed at the parts of the parent's post that said:

> This is such the wrong take

And:

> "Teens faking mental illness” is a folk tale older than social media.

And I do not believe either of those statements captures the truth of the situation. Hysteria and group psychosis are also ancient phenomena, and not particularly well-understood, and so I think it's prideful and potentially harmful to preclude the current situation of mental illness, particularly when it manifests in hyper-connected online communities, from that possibility entirely.

I know you didn't really imply this in your post, but I can see in this thread others taking issue with statements like the above. Those opinions don't make me an opponent of mental health awareness, quite the opposite really. I just think we ought to be cautious and suspect when evaluating the current state of affairs, and not let current progress blind us of the potential for greater harm down the road.

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