291–300 of 376 posts
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Unfortunely not with same tooling level as C# and VB enjoy.
Rider has pretty decent F# support. Maybe not that many refactorings available, but it's IMHO worth it for the better language ;)
Where it is pretty much DYI.
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And...how do both companies compare in what telemetry they're sucking out of devs?
Fair question, devs who do not want to share telemetry for the dotnet core SDK simply need to set an environment variable. VSCode has a similar setting in the options. Not sure about Visual Studio as I haven’t used it in a while. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/tools/telemetry
There are countless, better privacy respecting tools.
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The difference between the shootout microbenchmarks and the TechEmpower benchmarks is that the former test computation-intensive tasks and the latter test an end-to-end web backend example. It tests how good the compiler is, how good the DB drivers are, how good the HTTP stack is. What's so good about MS ranking in the TechEmpower benchmarks is that it's the fastest full-featured "enterprise" framework. Frameworks li…
> The difference between the shootout microbenchmarks and the TechEmpower benchmarks is that the former test computation-intensive tasks and the latter test an end-to-end web backend example. That proves my point even further, because I don't develop anything remotely web-related, hence that performance scenario is completely moot for me. > What's so good about MS ranking in the TechEmpower benchmarks is that it's th…
I hope you realize non-web development is a niche nowadays. So it's perfectly reasonable to prioritize .NET benchmarks that target ASP.NET Core web apps/APIs.
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I'm not entitled to a best-in-class IDE experience, I'm just happy using one of the dozens of equivalent languages that do have them with an open community.
No language has been tied to an IDE since at least early 2000s. Microsofts own compilers are free to use. So no idea what you're talking about when you talk about "a language that doesn't rely on paying for an IDE". And the tools for most of the languages supported by the open community? The top, best-of-breed of these tools can barely do the bare minimum of refactoring and maybe symbol lookups. Even to this day you…
> And, surprisingly, Jetbrains' IDEs are not expensive at all. And are several orders of magnitude more powerful than anything the "open community" has come up with.
This says more about the languages and ecosystems you're used to. Try out rust-analyzer and say that again!
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> The difference between the shootout microbenchmarks and the TechEmpower benchmarks is that the former test computation-intensive tasks and the latter test an end-to-end web backend example. That proves my point even further, because I don't develop anything remotely web-related, hence that performance scenario is completely moot for me. > What's so good about MS ranking in the TechEmpower benchmarks is that it's th…
> That proves my point even further, because I don't develop anything remotely web-related, hence that performance scenario is completely moot for me. I hope you realize non-web development is a niche nowadays. So it's perfectly reasonable to prioritize .NET benchmarks that target ASP.NET Core web apps/APIs.
Our vantage points are different, and these different vantage points need not to see the complete ecosystem as a whole. It's too big to generalize from a single vantage point, and just because our view reveal us a little of something doesn't mean it is, in fact, little.
There's a whole invisible world out there, from DBs themselves to OS kernels to embedded platforms, and everything in between.
IOW, horses for courses.
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I tried writing a simple crud api with asp.net, which should parse and respond json. It was the worst development experience I ever had while writing json apis. Validation? Not existent. OpenAPI/swagger documentation generation? Not existent. Then it also tried to force me into using MVC, while acting that it is express with its middlewares. I switched back to node.js with fastify and wrote my app in an hour. I reall…
I think that's the barrier with C# in general - the framework nature of it means there's a lot of "I don't know what I don't know" especially with ASP.NET which is quite large in scope. Don't get me wrong - that's the usual dev reaction when switching from their familiar language/tools to a new one but I don't think, at least historically, C#/ASP.NET made it as easy as it could of been. Which namespace do I open to i…
If you use the templates provided by .NET Command Line Interface or Visual Studio, you'll get this all baked in & setup.
VS also added a very nice feature where it suggests & imports popular packages if you type a method on a type that's well known. If you already have it added to your project but need a using statement in this file, it'll pick that up fast as well.
They've also improved their docs quite a bit from years ago with lots of good examples for common things.
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Rider has pretty decent F# support. Maybe not that many refactorings available, but it's IMHO worth it for the better language ;)
Only if we consider the language in itself, without the .NET ecosystem for GUI, databases, code generators,... Where it is pretty much DYI.
And see above for database, Type Providers are great at least for SQL server, I think the sql one also works for PostGres but I never used it so not certain.
GUI is a mess last I knew though I agree.
I'm not entirely sold on its use for desktop GUI development yet (will watch MAUI closely) but I am eager to jump into Blazor and see if I can start to remove JavaScript from my stack.
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> The difference between the shootout microbenchmarks and the TechEmpower benchmarks is that the former test computation-intensive tasks and the latter test an end-to-end web backend example. That proves my point even further, because I don't develop anything remotely web-related, hence that performance scenario is completely moot for me. > What's so good about MS ranking in the TechEmpower benchmarks is that it's th…
> That proves my point even further, because I don't develop anything remotely web-related, hence that performance scenario is completely moot for me. I hope you realize non-web development is a niche nowadays. So it's perfectly reasonable to prioritize .NET benchmarks that target ASP.NET Core web apps/APIs.
That's a terrible attitude. If you want a certain ecosystem to get a better rep, you have to be ready to talk with different communities, and accept their feedback.
Python is what it is largely because it can cater to a large number of these very different communities, which has ensured its long-term success. Compare with Ruby, which became effectively a web-only language and has since struggled to go anywhere.
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I tried writing a simple crud api with asp.net, which should parse and respond json. It was the worst development experience I ever had while writing json apis. Validation? Not existent. OpenAPI/swagger documentation generation? Not existent. Then it also tried to force me into using MVC, while acting that it is express with its middlewares. I switched back to node.js with fastify and wrote my app in an hour. I reall…
As a C# developer I could say the same about my experience dealing with my first foray into [insert random language] and my attempt to develop [something with a non-trivial framework]. The issues you had could be attacked by navigating through this section of documentation, diving into the tutorial referenced in the beginning of the Overview section and the subsequent sections: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/aspnet…
For example, the secret incantations required to output a mere string as raw json mimetype or log incoming deserialization errors* are unintuitive and very labourious - see InvalidModelStateResponseFactory. Or that I had to create a custom output formatter to output raw json. Why? Sometimes I just want ASP.NET to get out of my way and it's not trivial to tell it to let go.
* For example, url?parameter=1 for a boolean parameter, which would have worked with .NET Framework but won't for .NET Core/.NET.