Live data from Hacker News

Towards robot accelerators, democratizing hardware acceleration in robotics

news.accelerationrobotics.com

11–20 of 48 posts

Re: Towards robot accelerators, democratizing hardware acceleration in robotics

#11
Did you know it takes almost a hundred ms for a signal to go from your fingers to your brain? Did you know that the brain is constantly predicting the future to make up for its slow reaction time? Did you know even small computers are really really fast? If you did then you'd probably guess that initiatives like this are a waste of time and money. The difficulty is in the software, not the hardware, or the compute layer. With good algorithms our current crop of robots are already fully capable of producing trillions more in economic value than they do today.

We do not need hardware acceleration in robotics. Can we use it if it exists? Sure, but do we care about "democratizing" it? No.

There is a place for hardware acceleration in robotics that is making a huge difference and that's in simulation. GPUs, the once and future king, make training robust neural networks possible and fast. If you're an investor reading this who needs a reminder, bet on software.

Re: Towards robot accelerators, democratizing hardware acceleration in robotics

#12

Did you know it takes almost a hundred ms for a signal to go from your fingers to your brain? Did you know that the brain is constantly predicting the future to make up for its slow reaction time? Did you know even small computers are really really fast? If you did then you'd probably guess that initiatives like this are a waste of time and money. The difficulty is in the software, not the hardware, or the compute la…

Did you know that for predicting what you'll see 100ms into the future you need a level of real-time 3D recognition and world knowledge that we haven't ever solved acceptably, not even offline and parts of it in isolation?

While I agree with you that in 50 years, advances in AI will make fast hardware obsolete, it may well be that in 5 years, fast hardware will be able to avoid problems that we cannot yet solve in software. That would mean this company has 45 years to cash in before they get replaced by software.

Re: Towards robot accelerators, democratizing hardware acceleration in robotics

#13

Did you know it takes almost a hundred ms for a signal to go from your fingers to your brain? Did you know that the brain is constantly predicting the future to make up for its slow reaction time? Did you know even small computers are really really fast? If you did then you'd probably guess that initiatives like this are a waste of time and money. The difficulty is in the software, not the hardware, or the compute la…

[deleted]

Re: Towards robot accelerators, democratizing hardware acceleration in robotics

#14

Did you know it takes almost a hundred ms for a signal to go from your fingers to your brain? Did you know that the brain is constantly predicting the future to make up for its slow reaction time? Did you know even small computers are really really fast? If you did then you'd probably guess that initiatives like this are a waste of time and money. The difficulty is in the software, not the hardware, or the compute la…

[deleted]

Re: Towards robot accelerators, democratizing hardware acceleration in robotics

#15

Did you know it takes almost a hundred ms for a signal to go from your fingers to your brain? Did you know that the brain is constantly predicting the future to make up for its slow reaction time? Did you know even small computers are really really fast? If you did then you'd probably guess that initiatives like this are a waste of time and money. The difficulty is in the software, not the hardware, or the compute la…

The human brain does what it does with roughly 20 watts, if we take the popular figure of the brain taking 1/5th the power of your whole body and the average human body burning 100 watts.

How much neural net can you run on silicon with 20 watts?

Re: Towards robot accelerators, democratizing hardware acceleration in robotics

#16

comparison using Jetson TX2 or Xavier could have provided better insight instead of Nano 2G which struggles even in basic task but otherwise looks quite promising

It was benchmarked against Jetson AGX Xavier as well. See https://news.accelerationrobotics.com/hardware-accelerated-r....

Results using AGX Orin are in the pipeline and will come out soon as well.

Re: Towards robot accelerators, democratizing hardware acceleration in robotics

#17

Looks impressive to a layman like myself. I'm guessing it addresses the global shortage of single-board computers like Raspberry Pis right? Curious to know how long it'll take to do that as well.

Well, yes but not only. There's only so much you can do with Pis and other SBCs that offer a CPU-centric compute solution. Robots are real-time systems and CPUs don't excel at that.

When optimizing dataflows for lower latencies and higher throughputs, you typically seek specialized compute architectures and that's wherein GPUs and FPGAs come in. That's what this work really enables.

Re: Towards robot accelerators, democratizing hardware acceleration in robotics

#18
As a controls engineer who has implemented and assisted with dozens of robotic manufacturing cells, the problem isn't the motion planning or compute, it's legacy product support and ease of onboarding new hires.

Any given cell may be in production for 10 years - some only for 5, but some for 20 or more - and you need The problem is that academia is working in ROS (now ROS 2), writing Python and VHDL, while the real work in the industry is being done in proprietary vendor tooling that's backwards compatible with training from the 80s. They're proudly advertising touchscreens and full-color 5.7" displays on their teach pendants, as if their customers were still 20 years in the past.

Yes, academia, I do want sub-millimeter repeatability, and flawlessly smooth motion planning. I want collision detection that accommodates both the inertia of the arm itself and any end-of-arm tooling, including cable harnesses with distributed loads. I want automatic singularity avoidance and trivial point and frame manipulation. I want 24-bit encoders for resolution, and I want angular velocities to the moon, and to make those work together I need servo loop rates and high-speed skip responses at 1, 2, or 10 kHz. I want 4D stop position prediction to avoid intersection of the robot arm with complex assemblies and safety zones imported from CAD. I want all these things cheaper and faster, with more storage.

But I need these to be accessible by Billy Joe, whose only credentials that got him the job in the maintenance department is that he helped out his daddy working with a welder and an old clapped-out Bridgeport on the farm growing up. Billy is probably my best tech on 3rd shift, and he's never learned to type on a full-size keyboard, just his smartphone... and on a robot teach pendant.

Re: Towards robot accelerators, democratizing hardware acceleration in robotics

#19
post #6
post #4

While hardware accelerators in robotics are very cool, and needed. The fact that the entire workflow is ROS2 centric is a bummer. FPGA and Accelerator Programming is already a huge PITA, and despite it's success ROS is really one of the worst frameworks I've ever used in terms of DX. It makes an already hard problem, needlessly harder. I wouldn't be surprised if they developed their own FPGA programming environment b…

What would you use instead of ROS?

Use ROS 2. The misconceptions about ROS have been mostly addressed with ROS 2.

Check out industry adoption of ROS 2 in various industries including automotive, healthcare and warehouse automation. ROS 2 is (and will remain as) the de facto standard for robot application development.

Re: Towards robot accelerators, democratizing hardware acceleration in robotics

#20
post #4

While hardware accelerators in robotics are very cool, and needed. The fact that the entire workflow is ROS2 centric is a bummer. FPGA and Accelerator Programming is already a huge PITA, and despite it's success ROS is really one of the worst frameworks I've ever used in terms of DX. It makes an already hard problem, needlessly harder. I wouldn't be surprised if they developed their own FPGA programming environment b…

I have to agree with you on this one. Yes Ros looks hood on paper but the moment you open it, it just screams academia and academics. Also yes FPGA is faster for in general. But who is gonna program it ?

Move to ROS 2 :)!

Regarding who's going to create the accelerators, enablers like this allow any ROSser to jump into creating their own accelerator from C++ by purely adding some metadata into their CMakeLists.txt files (which every ROS package has already).

On top of that, organizations are creating professional-grade kernels meant for production. NVIDIA and AMD are investing in that direction and so are we at Acceleration Robotics. Here're a few of the first ones announced: - Accelerated perception stack (ROS 2 API-compatible) https://accelerationrobotics.com/robotcore-perception.php - Accelerated coordinate system transformation (ROS 2 API-compatible, tf2) https://accelerationrobotics.com/robotcore-transform.php

Post reply on HN