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The Case for C# and .NET

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Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#241

Post by dmitriid »

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #230
dmitriid wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dead to students or any new users because nobody is going to fork out a couple hundred $ As all JetBrains products, it's free for students, open source projects, and classroom assistance, and training courses. https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/buy/#discounts And it includes an excellent debugger.

Only for some students. If you don't have an .edu address and your college or university is not in their pre-approved list, it's difficult to get a free license. It's a pretty typical attitude towards us coming from third-world countries though, and we developed our own ways of dealing with this.

Also, there's I ItelliJ Community Edition which omits some but not all language integrations.

But "we developed our own ways of dealing with this" is so very true :)

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#242

Post by owenm »

pjmlp wrote: post #237
reverseblade2 wrote: post #219

Just use F# instead and you will have Rust, typescript, Javascript, dart, python all at once https://twitter.com/FableCompiler/status/1550429007443017729...

Unfortunely not with same tooling level as C# and VB enjoy.

I used to use Visual Studio and VSMac for my F# experimentation. Over the past couple of years, Ionide has got so much better that I've switched completely over to it from VS for all my F# work. The new 7.0 release a couple of days ago looks to have continued this trend.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#243

Post by dmitriid »

d3nj4l wrote: post #167
dmitriid wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do people feel they are absoultely entitled to having best-in-class IDEs for free? Don't the developers of those IDEs have the right to, you know, eat ? ALso, JetBrains' IDEs are: - free for students, startups and opensource projects - cost an insane "two/three beers a month" for individual licenses (yeah, it's more expensive than two beers in many countries, but as a developer I could easily afford it even in th…

I'm not entitled to a best-in-class IDE experience, I'm just happy using one of the dozens of equivalent languages that do have them with an open community.

No language has been tied to an IDE since at least early 2000s. Microsofts own compilers are free to use.

So no idea what you're talking about when you talk about "a language that doesn't rely on paying for an IDE".

And the tools for most of the languages supported by the open community? The top, best-of-breed of these tools can barely do the bare minimum of refactoring and maybe symbol lookups. Even to this day you can read things like "X is amazing for refactoring because you change something, and the compiler will tell you all the places where it can't compile".

Good tools are expensive. And, surprisingly, Jetbrains' IDEs are not expensive at all. And are several orders of magnitude more powerful than anything the "open community" has come up with.

And, to re-iterate, no language is dependent on an IDE these days. Go grab Kotlin's CLI compiler, https://kotlinlang.org/docs/command-line.html fire up your vi/emacs/gedit and code to your heart's content if you're so set against commercial IDEs.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#244

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

ivraatiems wrote: post #99
sandreas wrote: post #18

I also think that C# and .NET are awesome. Especially latest releases dotnet 6 and upcoming 7 have a ton of new things to be even more productive. I like the fact, that you can develop command line apps, Web APIs, Desktop Apps and smartphone apps all with the same toolset, including the fact that deployment is possible on nearly every major platform for every major platform (except iOS and macOS Apps, as always only…

I've been a .NET developer professionally for seven and a half years. Rider is the way to go. Visual Studio has improved dramatically over the last decade or so, but Rider is still way ahead of it on code search/discovery, performance, and general user experience. I did a tech talk at my company where I demoed Rider vs Visual Studio 2019 performance on our bigger projects... it was embarrassing for VS. VS 2022 was su…

And...how do both companies compare in what telemetry they're sucking out of devs?

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#246

Post by Angius »

mostertoaster wrote: post #98

> My hope is that .NET and C# have a resurgence as .NET 6 rounds the corner. With .NET 6, C# 10, and minimal APIs, the language feels more modern than ever and is the perfect gateway from TypeScript/JavaScript on the server to .NET. Oh please please please let this come true so I can write c# on the backend again. I love typescript because it made JavaScript (i.e. front end web) so much less shit to work on, and I’d…

It must be one old article, because what rounds the corner is .NET 7, while .NET 6 and minimal APIs have been available for a better part of a year already

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#247

Post by Angius »

karmasimida wrote: post #201

C# is good, but not good enough to convince me overcoming the hurdle to onboard with its ecosystem. The deal isn't sweet enough. Language isn't important unless it is business critical. And successful businesses are scarce.

What hurdle?

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#248

Post by ynx »

spyremeown wrote: post #184
nathanaldensr wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any .NET NuGet packages targeting .NET Core/.NET 5+ without the -windows TFM will run on any platform that CoreCLR runs on. ASP.NET 6 is no exception. There is nothing Windows-specific in there any longer, and there hasn't been for quite some time. ASP.NET now runs by default on Kestrel, Microsoft's cross-platform web server.

> Any .NET NuGet packages targeting .NET Core/.NET 5+ without the -windows TFM will run on any platform that CoreCLR runs on. I got sleepy just reading this. There's just so much fragmentation and frameworks and different versions of frameworks and web-servers... can't Microsoft just let the .NET be and let them do their thing? They have certainly pumped out loads of amazing software that seemed to get a knee on the…

In fairness that is what they have done. .NET Framework is dead, .NET Core is "dead" (to clarify: .NET Framework dies with .NET 4 and .NET Core/CoreCLR is .NET 5 and above).

Mono is a cross-platform (ish) implementation of .NET Framework, but its future is (eventually) to be replaced with the main .NET which is now based on the cross-platform version (.NET 5 and above, which is currently distinguished from Framework by continuing to call it ".NET Core"). Mono and .NET Framework will fade away once Unity gets their act together and moves on from it.

tl;dr: .NET 5 and above are, for all intents and purposes, the only future path for .NET, but we're in a transitionary period right now.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#249

Post by pjmlp »

owenm wrote: post #242
pjmlp wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunely not with same tooling level as C# and VB enjoy.

I used to use Visual Studio and VSMac for my F# experimentation. Over the past couple of years, Ionide has got so much better that I've switched completely over to it from VS for all my F# work. The new 7.0 release a couple of days ago looks to have continued this trend.

Try to do a GUI or EF data model design in Ionide, hot code reload while changing a GUI design, or using annotations from code generators.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#250

Post by code_runner »

hypeatei wrote: post #245

I like C# but I've really come to dislike the idea of exceptions and null after working with Rust. I think C# would benefit from a Result/Option addition.

It should be a simple wrapper Func with a generic Option. I’m sure there is a library out there doing it already.
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