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The Case for C# and .NET

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Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#131

Post by oaiey »

dustinmoris wrote: post #117
fabian2k wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VS Code has a C# debugger on Linux. There are certainly limitations to the open source C# support in VS Code, but for students it should be easily sufficient. If you want a language where not only the core and main libraries are open source, but also all the tools then C# is probably not the right choice. If free (but not open) tools for most use cases and paid tools for larger companies or higher-level demands are o…

OmniSharp (VS Code extension for C#) has been discontinued and there is no replacement yet. Besides, Microsoft purpusefully sabotaged OmniSharp to make it so unusable that it forces people to use Visual Studio, so even if a beginner on Linux would decide to try C# with a discontinued product they would only face difficulties and a basically horrendous mostly broken experience. .NET on Linux is non existent without Ri…

It is not discontinued, it is regularly updated, and all the interesting parts are coming straight out of the compiler project (Roslyn) which will be the source for all future alternative extensions. Surely, they have different interest and do not put too much money into OmniSharp.

Do I like that some part of the stack is closed source (like the debugger and in future the extension host): No! Does it lead to a broken or discontinued future: No!

Compared to my experiences with PHP, Java and JavaScript, C# on Linux is just fine.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#132

Post by dmitriid »

dustinmoris wrote: post #104
DeWilde wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Rider on my Ubuntu machine and the dev experience for me, is even better than using VS2022 on Windows.

Quoted post unavailable.

> dead to students or any new users because nobody is going to fork out a couple hundred $

As all JetBrains products, it's free for students, open source projects, and classroom assistance, and training courses. https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/buy/#discounts

And it includes an excellent debugger.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#133

Post by jborean93 »

dustinmoris wrote: post #117
fabian2k wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VS Code has a C# debugger on Linux. There are certainly limitations to the open source C# support in VS Code, but for students it should be easily sufficient. If you want a language where not only the core and main libraries are open source, but also all the tools then C# is probably not the right choice. If free (but not open) tools for most use cases and paid tools for larger companies or higher-level demands are o…

OmniSharp (VS Code extension for C#) has been discontinued and there is no replacement yet. Besides, Microsoft purpusefully sabotaged OmniSharp to make it so unusable that it forces people to use Visual Studio, so even if a beginner on Linux would decide to try C# with a discontinued product they would only face difficulties and a basically horrendous mostly broken experience. .NET on Linux is non existent without Ri…

I use vscode on Linux without any problems. Can debug and do all I need to do without any problems. Omnisharp may not be perfect but it works. It will be interesting to see what is going to replace it but short of the closed source concerns I’m fairly sure it will still work.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#135

Post by dmitriid »

d3nj4l wrote: post #47
jimbob45 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you ever waste time using VSCode for C# when VS and JetBrains Rider exist?

Maybe it's good to have an open ecosystem for using the language that doesn't rely on paying for an IDE? I personally soured on Kotlin for this same reason!

Why do people feel they are absoultely entitled to having best-in-class IDEs for free? Don't the developers of those IDEs have the right to, you know, eat?

ALso, JetBrains' IDEs are:

- free for students, startups and opensource projects

- cost an insane "two/three beers a month" for individual licenses (yeah, it's more expensive than two beers in many countries, but as a developer I could easily afford it even in the shithole that is Moldova)

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#136

Post by LAC-Tech »

bob1029 wrote: post #116
LAC-Tech wrote: post #82

Until .NET has the equivalent of Zod, I'm not that interested. Being able to write a validation schema and deriving types from it automatically - that I can share on client and server - is just too big an advantage.

Perhaps you should look into the .NET implementation of gRPC. It works really well in my experience.

The thing with zod is that by reusing schemas on server and client, I get extra client side validation for free.

gRPC seems like it's just for the server.

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#137

Post by oaiey »

dustinmoris wrote: post #84

Hottake: Without JetBrains Rider .NET would have no cross platform dev experience. VS is shitty Windows bloatware, VS for Mac is utter rubbish and OmniSharp was killed by Microsoft because they didn't fancy to give away dev tools for free and purposefully killed it in order to replace OmniSharp with a closed source extension, which as of today doesn't exist yet. So if you are a Linux developer then you are basically…

I think they are exactly seeing this and acting on it. IMHO they will start offering on VS Code a basic free product (a stable omnisharp equivalent) good enough for coding, debugging, etc. and then pricy options like visual designers, intellitrace, AI-guided coding, hot reload, etc. IMHO they will do the same for Python, PHP and others.

They head of the dev division needs to protect the revenue. Simple as that.

However, I completely agree with your sentiment: "Microsoft doesn't see what's good for them" ... because "free" is not "open source" and trust does not come from "free" but from "open source".

Re: The Case for C# and .NET

#138

Post by dustinmoris »

dmitriid wrote: post #132
dustinmoris wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> dead to students or any new users because nobody is going to fork out a couple hundred $ As all JetBrains products, it's free for students, open source projects, and classroom assistance, and training courses. https://www.jetbrains.com/rider/buy/#discounts And it includes an excellent debugger.

.NET student (aka newbie) student in school

And please stop this fake reality bullshit. NOBODY, not a single freaking person who wants to learn a new language will start off by searching the internet for an IDE and debugger where they can apply for a free license and then wait a few days so they can try it out. That is just ridiculous to even suggest.

If one wants to learn a language they download the SDK, open VS Code and look for an extension. If there is none or the one that exists doesn't work they basically say "WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS SHIT", close it and walk away with the conclusion that it's not well supported. Let's stay real please okay.

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