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Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

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Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#61

Post by rschachte »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #38
rschachte wrote: post #15

I’ve been working on a Kubernetes cluster for my home network. I know a lot of people hate on Kubernetes, but it’s pretty cool and not too bad to even get started from scratch with Kubeadm. I think the constant thought in the back of my mind is… Docker containers and Nginx is definitely enough for my needs. At work, it’s a different story, but more most things, it can be over kill.

Do you think running k8s at home is worthwhile, past the learning experience and cool factor? I have a nice server that I used for 10-20 applications like Time Machine backup, media streaming, file syncing, home automation, etc. I was looking into k8s, but it seemed way too complicated when I only have one physical server, so I went with Docker + Docker Compose instead.

If I was in your situation, probably not. We use it a lot at work, so it’s a playground to grow my skills and play around while doubling as a painless way to host anything.

All in all, I still think docker, docker compose and nginx is the way to go for hobbyist stuff. I doubt my ISP would let me host anything at a huge scale off my home router anyways.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#62

Post by kuschku »

evol262 wrote: post #42
CameronNemo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you tell me what specific challenges you've had with deploying non-HTTP services using Kubernetes? Many features are http-centric, but others seem fairly agnostic to me. What kind of non-http services are we talking about anyway?

Deploying them is easy. Figuring out the correct incantations to bind a load balancer or ingress port to redis/kafka/mysql/whatever and/or expose them in some way other than "let the ingress figure out the host from headers/SNI and map to some thing in the Service" is somewhat less than intuitive. Sure, you could argue that you shouldn't expose backend services like that without an API endpoint at all, because one ap…

The Gateway API is entering beta! It'll resolve pretty much what you're aiming for.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#64

Post by anothernewdude »

daenz wrote: post #17

I'm going to post my unsolicited opinion about K8s here, as an SWE+SRE who used it heavily for about 1.5 years on GCP. It's a very cool system. I completely understand why people half-jokingly call it a "distributed operating system." It does a lot of things related to the lifecycles of various state (secrets, storage, config, deployments, etc). However, I believe it goes way too far into putting infrastructure into…

> Things that exist in most modern clouds are being reinvented in K8s

I should fucking hope so. I don't want to change my helm charts because I'm deploying on Azure for this particular client.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#65

Post by shepherdjerred »

rschachte wrote: post #61
shepherdjerred wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think running k8s at home is worthwhile, past the learning experience and cool factor? I have a nice server that I used for 10-20 applications like Time Machine backup, media streaming, file syncing, home automation, etc. I was looking into k8s, but it seemed way too complicated when I only have one physical server, so I went with Docker + Docker Compose instead.

If I was in your situation, probably not. We use it a lot at work, so it’s a playground to grow my skills and play around while doubling as a painless way to host anything. All in all, I still think docker, docker compose and nginx is the way to go for hobbyist stuff. I doubt my ISP would let me host anything at a huge scale off my home router anyways.

nginx is great, but I've also been hearing good things about caddy[0]. I want to check it out soon.

[0]: https://caddyserver.com/v2

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#66

Post by jbmsf »

urthor wrote: post #55
daenz wrote: post #17

I'm going to post my unsolicited opinion about K8s here, as an SWE+SRE who used it heavily for about 1.5 years on GCP. It's a very cool system. I completely understand why people half-jokingly call it a "distributed operating system." It does a lot of things related to the lifecycles of various state (secrets, storage, config, deployments, etc). However, I believe it goes way too far into putting infrastructure into…

With the best possible intentions, the above is very much not a good overview of the current K8s ecosystem. K8s is hugely supported and invested in by Alibaba, and TONS of companies you've never heard of. All of these companies have huge, mission critical reasons not to use AWS/Azure/GCP and invest in K8s. From an end user's standpoint, I am certainly not going to dispute your criticisms about Helm. Google's original…

> All of these companies have huge, mission critical reasons not to use AWS/Azure/GCP and invest in K8s.

Very true. The problems occur when smaller companies without these mission critical reasons make the same choices because the others are making them.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#67

Post by urthor »

jbmsf wrote: post #66
urthor wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the best possible intentions, the above is very much not a good overview of the current K8s ecosystem. K8s is hugely supported and invested in by Alibaba, and TONS of companies you've never heard of. All of these companies have huge, mission critical reasons not to use AWS/Azure/GCP and invest in K8s. From an end user's standpoint, I am certainly not going to dispute your criticisms about Helm. Google's original…

> All of these companies have huge, mission critical reasons not to use AWS/Azure/GCP and invest in K8s. Very true. The problems occur when smaller companies without these mission critical reasons make the same choices because the others are making them.

For smaller companies, Digital Ocean Managed Kubernetes or or Google Cloud Run or their AWS equivalent are all very good choices.

But yes, "roll your own K8s" is for larger organizations.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#68

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #38
rschachte wrote: post #15

I’ve been working on a Kubernetes cluster for my home network. I know a lot of people hate on Kubernetes, but it’s pretty cool and not too bad to even get started from scratch with Kubeadm. I think the constant thought in the back of my mind is… Docker containers and Nginx is definitely enough for my needs. At work, it’s a different story, but more most things, it can be over kill.

Do you think running k8s at home is worthwhile, past the learning experience and cool factor? I have a nice server that I used for 10-20 applications like Time Machine backup, media streaming, file syncing, home automation, etc. I was looking into k8s, but it seemed way too complicated when I only have one physical server, so I went with Docker + Docker Compose instead.

If you were to bring on two more servers it would probably be worth it. 3 is the magic number for when k3s starts to bring more interesting stuff to the table in terms of reliability and dynamic behaviors.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#69

Post by ctroein89 »

joshuak wrote: post #57
daenz wrote: post #17

I'm going to post my unsolicited opinion about K8s here, as an SWE+SRE who used it heavily for about 1.5 years on GCP. It's a very cool system. I completely understand why people half-jokingly call it a "distributed operating system." It does a lot of things related to the lifecycles of various state (secrets, storage, config, deployments, etc). However, I believe it goes way too far into putting infrastructure into…

The problem is that few people seem to understand the infrastructure as code concept, and essentially break the core k8s declarative architecture with imperative workflows that look just like the bash script install insanity we left behind. Workflows that are encouraged by tools like Helm and examples that create k8s objects on the fly without even creating much less retaining the "code" part of IaC. It turns a tool…

Mind expanding a little on your complaints about Helm? I’ve only used Helm as a templating solution (and even then only to differentiate between local, staging and production), so I’m curious what problems I have to guard against.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#70

Post by monkpit »

joshuak wrote: post #57
daenz wrote: post #17

I'm going to post my unsolicited opinion about K8s here, as an SWE+SRE who used it heavily for about 1.5 years on GCP. It's a very cool system. I completely understand why people half-jokingly call it a "distributed operating system." It does a lot of things related to the lifecycles of various state (secrets, storage, config, deployments, etc). However, I believe it goes way too far into putting infrastructure into…

The problem is that few people seem to understand the infrastructure as code concept, and essentially break the core k8s declarative architecture with imperative workflows that look just like the bash script install insanity we left behind. Workflows that are encouraged by tools like Helm and examples that create k8s objects on the fly without even creating much less retaining the "code" part of IaC. It turns a tool…

> IoC

IaC?

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