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Children's Railways of the Former USSR

dzd-ussr.ru

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Re: Children's Railways of the Former USSR

#11

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #9

> Then, why is it "Children's?", you might ask. Because it is operated by the schoolchildren, 9-15 years old. This blew my mind, and immediately made me think of John Taylor-Gatto [1] who won numerous teaching awards trying, but ultimately failing, to convince American teachers to show children the same respect. My 30 year old masters students are not even allowed to run their own WiFi network never mind an actual RA…

> My 30 year old masters students are not even allowed to run their own WiFi network

Because they're students, or because IT doesn't want random people running their own networks that are halfway part of the school's systems but independently administered?

Re: Children's Railways of the Former USSR

#13

Post by playing_colours »

konschubert wrote: post #8
blueflow wrote: post #5

Some of these still exist! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresden_Park_Railway

And https://www.parkeisenbahn.de/startseite.html

I live nearby, and my son absolutely loves riding their trains on weekends. They have two types of railways: regular children’s railways, and something I would call micro-trains that operate within smaller boundaries.

The whole facility seems to come from GDR times, and there are mountains of old rusty train parts around their depots.

Re: Children's Railways of the Former USSR

#14

Post by nonrandomstring »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #11
nonrandomstring wrote: post #9

> Then, why is it "Children's?", you might ask. Because it is operated by the schoolchildren, 9-15 years old. This blew my mind, and immediately made me think of John Taylor-Gatto [1] who won numerous teaching awards trying, but ultimately failing, to convince American teachers to show children the same respect. My 30 year old masters students are not even allowed to run their own WiFi network never mind an actual RA…

> My 30 year old masters students are not even allowed to run their own WiFi network Because they're students, or because IT doesn't want random people running their own networks that are halfway part of the school's systems but independently administered?

> because IT doesn't want random people running their own networks that are halfway part of the school's systems but independently administered?

IT people have nothing to do with it. They just peck at webmin interfaces and pretend to understand what Microsoft tell them to do. If it were up to IT they'd just grunt and shrug, and the students would get on with it.

Decisions to directly counter to the core mission of the institution and stand between students and the education they paid for are way above IT's pay grade. For that we have a special class of random, low skilled people with an over-inflated sense of themselves called "policy makers" - a different cadre of unassailable, unaccountable centre of "shadow power" IT guys can only dream of :)

Re: Children's Railways of the Former USSR

#15

Post by kspacewalk2 »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #14
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My 30 year old masters students are not even allowed to run their own WiFi network Because they're students, or because IT doesn't want random people running their own networks that are halfway part of the school's systems but independently administered?

> because IT doesn't want random people running their own networks that are halfway part of the school's systems but independently administered? IT people have nothing to do with it. They just peck at webmin interfaces and pretend to understand what Microsoft tell them to do. If it were up to IT they'd just grunt and shrug, and the students would get on with it. Decisions to directly counter to the core mission of th…

I'm way too much of a simpleton to comprehend your philosophical musings of cosmic proportions, but this I know: students should not be in charge of the WiFi or anything else network related at an academic institution. This is a job for professional, dedicated IT staff.

Re: Children's Railways of the Former USSR

#16

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #14
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My 30 year old masters students are not even allowed to run their own WiFi network Because they're students, or because IT doesn't want random people running their own networks that are halfway part of the school's systems but independently administered?

> because IT doesn't want random people running their own networks that are halfway part of the school's systems but independently administered? IT people have nothing to do with it. They just peck at webmin interfaces and pretend to understand what Microsoft tell them to do. If it were up to IT they'd just grunt and shrug, and the students would get on with it. Decisions to directly counter to the core mission of th…

So this may well be true; certainly there are places where IT is incompetent and admin is... unhelpful. However, as someone who has been IT and who went to a school that had a... "fun" time with wifi[0], I can assure you that letting just anyone run a wifi network can have some fairly nasty fallout when they all fight over the same 3 channels and nobody can actually use wifi at all. Further, unless the students in question are actually doing a computing program that includes wireless network as part of the curriculum, it's not part of "the education they paid for", it's a service that the school should be providing (and yes, in the case of finite shared spectrum, imposing a monopoly on). If it's a computing masters program that includes networking, then yes of course the school should arrange a lab environment where the students can mess around, and the above only applies outside of that environment.

EDIT: [0] Although actually thinking about it now, I think the primary reason that policy was enforced had more to do with that letting people set up their own WAPs would undermine the 802.1x userIP mapping and the security folks had opinions about that. Dorm wifi was a mess because the sheer number/density of clients was awful regardless, but allowing just anyone to fight over channels would have made it even worse.

Re: Children's Railways of the Former USSR

#17

Post by dalbasal »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #15
nonrandomstring wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because IT doesn't want random people running their own networks that are halfway part of the school's systems but independently administered? IT people have nothing to do with it. They just peck at webmin interfaces and pretend to understand what Microsoft tell them to do. If it were up to IT they'd just grunt and shrug, and the students would get on with it. Decisions to directly counter to the core mission of th…

I'm way too much of a simpleton to comprehend your philosophical musings of cosmic proportions, but this I know: students should not be in charge of the WiFi or anything else network related at an academic institution. This is a job for professional, dedicated IT staff.

I'm not following. Are you in favour of letting children operate trains or against it?

Re: Children's Railways of the Former USSR

#18

Post by kspacewalk2 »

feet wrote: post #10
bitwize wrote: post #2

Quoted post unavailable.

Schools under capitalism are somehow better? Creating nothing but obedient wage slaves who lack critical thinking abilities Not to mention, as another comment mentions this was to give them a sense of responsibility early not to get child labor

Man, if you think schools under capitalism churn out "obedient wage slaves who lack critical thinking abilities", you'd be completely lost for words at what happens when lack of critical thinking is overtly baked into the system, like in the commie states. I only caught the very tail end of the abysmal, soul crushing Soviet primary school education, and by the late 80s most adults were openly contemptuous of the totalitarian BS... But it was still enough to understand that this system was based on institutionalized, merciless bullying and a methodical dismantling of independent thinking of any pupil entering it.

Re: Children's Railways of the Former USSR

#20

Post by nonrandomstring »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #15
nonrandomstring wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because IT doesn't want random people running their own networks that are halfway part of the school's systems but independently administered? IT people have nothing to do with it. They just peck at webmin interfaces and pretend to understand what Microsoft tell them to do. If it were up to IT they'd just grunt and shrug, and the students would get on with it. Decisions to directly counter to the core mission of th…

I'm way too much of a simpleton to comprehend your philosophical musings of cosmic proportions, but this I know: students should not be in charge of the WiFi or anything else network related at an academic institution. This is a job for professional, dedicated IT staff.

Pretty obviously I'm the professor, right? The assignment is WiFi AP points and attacking authentication. It's in the syllabus (signed, sealed and approved all the way up to VC). Attacking the institutional access points would definitely not be okay. Where do you suppose professional, dedicated IT staff come from?
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