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Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

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Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#31

Post by deckard1 »

JacobHenner wrote: post #19
JanMa wrote: post #18

Why does everyone keep thinking developers need to now about K8S? Just be glad if your infra/DevOps/platform teams abstract this away from you and you don't have to deal with this insanity.

Not every org delegates these responsibilities to separate roles.

if you're at the size of needing K8S, you can afford a devops/cloud engineering team.

To OP's point, this seems to be a trend among corporate blogs. Targeting devs with irrelevant content. A few weeks back I remember seeing a "SOC 2 for devs" blog article and was really scratching my head. That's not the level that devs work at, at all. If you're paying six figure salaries to devs to sit around all day worrying about overweight bureaucratic nonsense, or other tasks way beyond their expertise, then you're doing it wrong. I'm guessing these orgs think devs has some decision making influence or perhaps it looks good for recruiting? Or maybe they just want that HN juice. What next, I wonder? Neurosurgery for devs?

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#32

Post by CameronNemo »

hujun wrote: post #28

the problem I have with k8s or whole concept of "cloud native" is it almost ONLY focus on web based application, if your application is not HTTP based or "stateless", it is very hard to run or design to be "cloud native" , specially in a managed k8s service(like eks/aks).

Can you tell me what specific challenges you've had with deploying non-HTTP services using Kubernetes? Many features are http-centric, but others seem fairly agnostic to me. What kind of non-http services are we talking about anyway?

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#33

Post by EddySchauHai »

deckard1 wrote: post #31
JacobHenner wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every org delegates these responsibilities to separate roles.

if you're at the size of needing K8S, you can afford a devops/cloud engineering team. To OP's point, this seems to be a trend among corporate blogs. Targeting devs with irrelevant content. A few weeks back I remember seeing a "SOC 2 for devs" blog article and was really scratching my head. That's not the level that devs work at, at all. If you're paying six figure salaries to devs to sit around all day worrying about…

What’s SOC 2? Security Operations Center?

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#34

Post by dingleberry420 »

JanMa wrote: post #18

Why does everyone keep thinking developers need to now about K8S? Just be glad if your infra/DevOps/platform teams abstract this away from you and you don't have to deal with this insanity.

It's laughable to think every small company has infra/DevOps/platform teams.

Also, in general, it's very useful to know the platform your software is going to be deployed to, so that you can design the software with those constraints in mind.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#35

Post by doliveira »

daenz wrote: post #17

I'm going to post my unsolicited opinion about K8s here, as an SWE+SRE who used it heavily for about 1.5 years on GCP. It's a very cool system. I completely understand why people half-jokingly call it a "distributed operating system." It does a lot of things related to the lifecycles of various state (secrets, storage, config, deployments, etc). However, I believe it goes way too far into putting infrastructure into…

You know the mountains of legacy code locked in to Oracle stuff? The way I see it, k8s is the way for us to avoid making the same mistake with AWS.

At the very least we can actually simulate our stack locally.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#36

Post by dingleberry420 »

deckard1 wrote: post #31
JacobHenner wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not every org delegates these responsibilities to separate roles.

if you're at the size of needing K8S, you can afford a devops/cloud engineering team. To OP's point, this seems to be a trend among corporate blogs. Targeting devs with irrelevant content. A few weeks back I remember seeing a "SOC 2 for devs" blog article and was really scratching my head. That's not the level that devs work at, at all. If you're paying six figure salaries to devs to sit around all day worrying about…

No. Kubernetes is extremely valuable to small orgs. Google Kubernetes Engine is pretty much fire & forget. You turn it on, set the maintenance window and it just works. It also saves you from having to reinvent health checks, ingresses, etc. It's actually less work than maintaining plain old servers when you factor in maintenance, and since state is immutable you don't run into issues where some developer fixed an issue 3 years ago and no one knows why it works.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#37

Post by [deleted] »

slimsag wrote: post #29
hujun wrote: post #28

the problem I have with k8s or whole concept of "cloud native" is it almost ONLY focus on web based application, if your application is not HTTP based or "stateless", it is very hard to run or design to be "cloud native" , specially in a managed k8s service(like eks/aks).

If you want highly scalable at Google's scale, HTTP-based stateless services that can be scaled up/down in response to traffic are highly desirable properties. The real problem is k8s and "cloud native" are designed for Google's scale, not yours.

[deleted]

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#38

Post by shepherdjerred »

rschachte wrote: post #15

I’ve been working on a Kubernetes cluster for my home network. I know a lot of people hate on Kubernetes, but it’s pretty cool and not too bad to even get started from scratch with Kubeadm. I think the constant thought in the back of my mind is… Docker containers and Nginx is definitely enough for my needs. At work, it’s a different story, but more most things, it can be over kill.

Do you think running k8s at home is worthwhile, past the learning experience and cool factor?

I have a nice server that I used for 10-20 applications like Time Machine backup, media streaming, file syncing, home automation, etc. I was looking into k8s, but it seemed way too complicated when I only have one physical server, so I went with Docker + Docker Compose instead.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#39

Post by motoxpro »

dingleberry420 wrote: post #34
JanMa wrote: post #18

Why does everyone keep thinking developers need to now about K8S? Just be glad if your infra/DevOps/platform teams abstract this away from you and you don't have to deal with this insanity.

It's laughable to think every small company has infra/DevOps/platform teams. Also, in general, it's very useful to know the platform your software is going to be deployed to, so that you can design the software with those constraints in mind.

I'm just confused why a small company would allocate ~20% (at least) of their engineering hours to maintaining something like this? The 20% number comes from updating containers, checking for security vulnerabilities, rotating secrets, monitoring health, re-deploying after an outage, documenting build processes, creating CI/CD pipelines, writing YAML, etc. etc. I just don't see why you would do that when you could pay a tiny amount of money in comparison for a managed service.

After you have the money for devops, sure, seems great, many benefits. Or if you are just doing it for fun and want to learn, also fine. Or if you have some requirement (health data or something) then great.

But that 20~ has to be the lowest leverage thing possible to spend that time and money on if you are just a regular SaaS, marketplace, start up. I am genuinely interested how I would get a better return on that rather than fixing bugs, listening to customers, building features, etc.

The only thing I ever hear is "In 5 years you might be locked in and you will regret it." When, in reality, if most startups lasted 5 years, they would be ecstatic...

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