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Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

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Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#21

Post by vbezhenar »

stetrain wrote: post #16
embik wrote: post #2

> Kubernetes x Docker: Best Friends Forever > Whenever you hear Kubernetes, you’re probably going to hear Docker in the same sentence. Kubernetes and Docker are like peanut butter and jelly—they’re a perfect pair. For what it's worth, this article was originally written in October 2021, but even at that point it was clear that Kubernetes would remove support for docker. In fact it has already with Kubernetes 1.24. No…

> remove support for docker So I can't use Dockerfiles and `docker build` to build things for k8s?

This is not correct.

Kubernetes used docker engine under the hood in the past. Now they abstracted useful part of this engine into API. There's implementation from the docker (containerd), there's implementation from Redhat (CRI-O), may be others. Docker don't have to be installed for Kubernetes to work anymore.

Building container images is a different topic. Kubernetes does not have anything to offer here. So you probably still need docker in your development machine and in your CI pipeline to build those images. There are plenty of alternatives rised in recent years, most prominent ones are kaniko, buildah/podman, but they're far from docker in their maturity.

That actually makes a problem. It's hard to run docker and kubernetes side-by-side. Or docker inside kubernetes. So if you want to run your CI jobs inside Kubernetes, there's no good solutions right now.

I think people will eventually migrate to Kaniko. It's from Google, it seems to be a sane approach. But right now it's a mess.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#22

Post by cheriot »

daenz wrote: post #17

I'm going to post my unsolicited opinion about K8s here, as an SWE+SRE who used it heavily for about 1.5 years on GCP. It's a very cool system. I completely understand why people half-jokingly call it a "distributed operating system." It does a lot of things related to the lifecycles of various state (secrets, storage, config, deployments, etc). However, I believe it goes way too far into putting infrastructure into…

> Things that exist in most modern clouds are being reinvented in K8s.

My more optimistic view is that vendor specific APIs are being standardized. Initial implementations have their issues, but as more people use them the cloud vendors will improve their offering.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#23

Post by vbezhenar »

rschachte wrote: post #15

I’ve been working on a Kubernetes cluster for my home network. I know a lot of people hate on Kubernetes, but it’s pretty cool and not too bad to even get started from scratch with Kubeadm. I think the constant thought in the back of my mind is… Docker containers and Nginx is definitely enough for my needs. At work, it’s a different story, but more most things, it can be over kill.

My biggest issue with Kubernetes is huge costs of running it. It's 3 servers with 4 GB RAM. It's almost $100/month just for Kubernetes alone. And you need one load balancer for control nodes which is another $25 for my hoster. And you need second load balancer for production workloads which is another $25. So you have to pay $150/month for the privilege of using Kubernetes. And they double your costs for your application, because you want it to be high-available, why bother with Kubernetes otherwise.

So something that could be run with $5 droplet, suddenly requires $200.

They you want to install grafana, ELK, service mesh and whatnot.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#24

Post by vbezhenar »

ForHackernews wrote: post #14

Kubernetes was a clever ploy to trick cloud providers into abstracting themselves into irrelevance, but otherwise a dead end. Can we please hurry up and replace it with an open-source Nomad clone?

IMO Kubernetes is not going anywhere. People are jumping to it in huge numbers. It's very hot. It has sane architecture in my opinion. I'd say it has awesome architecture and I have great respects to the ones responsible for it. They've got very quality foundations. Kubernetes is new Linux. You expected to know Linux and Git, now you'll be expected to know Kubernetes if you're developer.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#25

Post by georgyo »

embik wrote: post #9
georgyo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have The question was did they remove support for docker. They have not. They simply removed dockershim and no longer special case it. Your point is that we should stop using a brand name to describe OCI open standard containers. However, like aspirin, the names are interchangable for the vast majority of people. OCI container doesn't really roll off the toung, and container by itself could mean all sorts of t…

> The question was did they remove support for docker. They have not. Have they not? Note that the GP asked for GKE specifically. The support page I linked to literally says so: > GKE will stop supporting node images that use Docker as the runtime in GKE version 1.24 and later Removing dockershim removed the existing support for docker, because docker does not support CRI (Container Runtime Interface), the API requir…

The install instructions still explicitly lists docker engine as container runtime.

https://kubernetes.io/docs/setup/production-environment/cont...

The dockershim removal FAQ says how to continue to use docker engine.

https://kubernetes.io/blog/2022/02/17/dockershim-faq/

-- Linux container could be LXC, systemd-nspawn, snap, flatpak, nixos-container, and many many many other things.

That's because Linux containers are built on Linux interfaces, but Linux itself does not have any prescriptive requirements on how to stich them together.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#26

Post by osigurdson »

daenz wrote: post #17

I'm going to post my unsolicited opinion about K8s here, as an SWE+SRE who used it heavily for about 1.5 years on GCP. It's a very cool system. I completely understand why people half-jokingly call it a "distributed operating system." It does a lot of things related to the lifecycles of various state (secrets, storage, config, deployments, etc). However, I believe it goes way too far into putting infrastructure into…

>> Things that exist in most modern clouds are being reinvented in K8s

The market wants cloud computing to be a commodity. I expect it will get what it wants via k8s or some other technology.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#27

Post by moritonal »

daenz wrote: post #17

I'm going to post my unsolicited opinion about K8s here, as an SWE+SRE who used it heavily for about 1.5 years on GCP. It's a very cool system. I completely understand why people half-jokingly call it a "distributed operating system." It does a lot of things related to the lifecycles of various state (secrets, storage, config, deployments, etc). However, I believe it goes way too far into putting infrastructure into…

In case you didn't know of it, for IaC, CDK8S has worked very well for me.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#28

Post by hujun »

the problem I have with k8s or whole concept of "cloud native" is it almost ONLY focus on web based application, if your application is not HTTP based or "stateless", it is very hard to run or design to be "cloud native" , specially in a managed k8s service(like eks/aks).

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#29

Post by slimsag »

hujun wrote: post #28

the problem I have with k8s or whole concept of "cloud native" is it almost ONLY focus on web based application, if your application is not HTTP based or "stateless", it is very hard to run or design to be "cloud native" , specially in a managed k8s service(like eks/aks).

If you want highly scalable at Google's scale, HTTP-based stateless services that can be scaled up/down in response to traffic are highly desirable properties.

The real problem is k8s and "cloud native" are designed for Google's scale, not yours.

Re: Kubernetes for Developers Who Know How to Develop

#30

Post by tux3 »

vbezhenar wrote: post #23
rschachte wrote: post #15

I’ve been working on a Kubernetes cluster for my home network. I know a lot of people hate on Kubernetes, but it’s pretty cool and not too bad to even get started from scratch with Kubeadm. I think the constant thought in the back of my mind is… Docker containers and Nginx is definitely enough for my needs. At work, it’s a different story, but more most things, it can be over kill.

My biggest issue with Kubernetes is huge costs of running it. It's 3 servers with 4 GB RAM. It's almost $100/month just for Kubernetes alone. And you need one load balancer for control nodes which is another $25 for my hoster. And you need second load balancer for production workloads which is another $25. So you have to pay $150/month for the privilege of using Kubernetes. And they double your costs for your applica…

k3s will run on a $5 droplet happily. If you want k8s for the yaml and not for the heavy-duty hyperscale redundancy, k3s works great
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