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/dev/null: Anti-Cheat Kernel Driver (2020)

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Re: /dev/null: Anti-Cheat Kernel Driver (2020)

#61

Post by blibble »

maccard wrote: post #42
cowtools wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could the cheating hardware be banned? it is general-purpose, there is no change in the programming of the host computer that couldn't be combated by reprogramming the cheating device. Security-by-obscurity is a game of cat-and-mouse where the cat is blind and the mouse is invulnerable.

The hardware isn't banned, the player is banned if the anticheat detects the hardware being used. The hardware might be reprogrammable and self modifying at some point in the future, but until it is and it's widely available a root level anticheat is adequate protection.

> The hardware isn't banned, the player is banned if the anticheat detects the hardware being used.

how? it can report itself as any pci device

Re: /dev/null: Anti-Cheat Kernel Driver (2020)

#63

Post by prvit »

judge2020 wrote: post #26
josephcsible wrote: post #5

> Now, while most players might find the idea of a corrupted Windows installation objectionable, a disturbing number of cheaters have shown themselves to be downright enthusiastic about the opportunity to jump onto some guy’s botnet in exchange for the ability to orbwalk. So they acknowledge that running third-party stuff in kernel mode increases the likelihood your machine gets owned by malware, in the very same blo…

The implication is that Riot only stands to gain a small amount of money if they decide to actually start a botnet using their customers' machines, with a lot of risk of lawsuit/bad PR if they do so; and that cheap cheat makers, due to their already-shady business and anonymity, are more likely to start selling botnet access on the side to make extra cash.

Good cheats are expensive (like, often more than $100 per month) Cheat makers have way higher per-user revenues than Riot.

Re: /dev/null: Anti-Cheat Kernel Driver (2020)

#64

Post by josephcsible »

pilgrimfff wrote: post #50
maccard wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference in effort, for a cheater, between installing a cheat as a user process and a kernel driver is about one button click. I can decide to cheat, stick my CC info into a website and download a program in less than 5 minutes. To get hardware I need to provide my shipping info and wait a couple of days. If the hardware is banned, I need to wait a few days before my replacement hardware is there, or with softw…

That's why I have to qualify it with ultimately Right now, the analog option is out of reach except to those with the right skills. But the hardware isn't that expensive even now, and will only get cheaper. All it takes is someone to commodify it.

> Right now, the analog option is out of reach except to those with the right skills.

What skills? Buying something online, then plugging it in once it shows up on your doorstep?

Re: /dev/null: Anti-Cheat Kernel Driver (2020)

#66

Post by gregsadetsky »

prvit wrote: post #3

Of course, this is just a blog post by a gaming company for their gamer audience, but lots of this stuff is downright dishonest. For example: > Now, while most players might find the idea of a corrupted Windows installation objectionable, a disturbing number of cheaters have shown themselves to be downright enthusiastic about the opportunity to jump onto some guy’s botnet in exchange for the ability to orbwalk Kernel…

Wow, DMA cheating is fascinating.

I didn't know anything about this world, but this video was a great explanation/demo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIbkt6Rl8FA

Re: /dev/null: Anti-Cheat Kernel Driver (2020)

#67

Post by mentos »

cowtools wrote: post #52
charcircuit wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but writing a program to synthetically generate correct images will take a while to come out in which players can play without cheaters ruining games.

Creating a system to automatically verify correct videos will take a while to come out, not to mention that it is extremely invasive for the end user and requires that they own all this extra equipment and bandwidth. The cheater does not even really need to generate fake video like I've described. Aimbots can be as subtle as the cheater wants them to be, offering <5% precision adjustments which won't be visible on a…

What do you think is a better way to validate the input is legitimate?

Re: /dev/null: Anti-Cheat Kernel Driver (2020)

#68

Post by drdaeman »

pilgrimfff wrote: post #2

No matter how low-level they get in the OS, this is ultimately a losing battle. Aimbots have gone analog (src: https://hackaday.com/2022/04/30/aimbot-does-it-in-hardware/ ) What can they do next? Demand webcam access with your mouse visible, I guess?

One dream is that I'll live long enough to see humans actually getting cybernetic enhancements and how much of a fuss that's gonna make on the gaming industry.

In the same tune, I genuinely do want to see what Olympic Games could become if anything they consider "cheating" would be allowed - I honestly want to see what humans are actually capable of (though, of course, I won't be happy if people would ruin themselves over merely a silly goal of "winning"). I believe that - unlike most arms races in history (except the Space Race, I guess) - this kind of stuff is going to be actually beneficial for humanity.

I'm not a smart guy, and probably there are some issues that I entirely miss (or maybe even not register as they don't match my beliefs), but that's a honest opinion. And yeah, I'm a sucker for science fiction.

Re: /dev/null: Anti-Cheat Kernel Driver (2020)

#70

Post by gregsadetsky »

charcircuit wrote: post #31
prvit wrote: post #3

Of course, this is just a blog post by a gaming company for their gamer audience, but lots of this stuff is downright dishonest. For example: > Now, while most players might find the idea of a corrupted Windows installation objectionable, a disturbing number of cheaters have shown themselves to be downright enthusiastic about the opportunity to jump onto some guy’s botnet in exchange for the ability to orbwalk Kernel…

>DMA cheats keep getting better every day These require buying physical harder instead of someone being able to just download a cheat for free. Also if you are writing memory to cheat / sending weird packets you can detect that and ban them.

From this video demo'ing a real DMA cheating device -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIbkt6Rl8FA -- the DMA is read, but the input to the computer is automated "movements" from a device masquerading as a USB mouse i.e. no DMA/memory writing.
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