Ford's answer to EV supply chain hell: Cheaper batteries

Post by kjkjadksj » Sun, Jul 24, 2022, 4:35 PM UTC

klondike_ wrote: post #30

cjdell wrote: post #13

I'm not sure why we aren't making EVs with small but upgradeable batteries. Like for example a $20k car with a 10kWh "good enough for now" starter battery that can be bought today. Still good enough for 90% of trips and upgradable to 50kWh with additional after market battery modules should the user decide. As simple as upgrading the RAM on an (old) laptop.

Modern EV design has the batteries integrated into the structural frame of the car. This is because the batteries are the heaviest part of the car, so you want them to be close to the ground and secure from impact. This also makes it very inconvenient to replace. Lots of companies (even Tesla) have attempted the replaceable battery concept but none have been able to make it work efficiently.

Post by RustyConsul » Sun, Jul 24, 2022, 4:43 PM UTC

enragedcacti wrote: post #191

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this is true except for the part where no other manufacturer (other than Tesla) has a reliable source of batteries -- so they're subject to intense supply chain constraints that limit inventory drastically. And so they were unable to meet the consumer demand for EVs. Hence you simply can't even get a Ford F150 Lightning even though it looks like a great vehicle. This all pre-dated the COVID related supply chai…

Ford believes they have the battery supply for a 600,000 EV/year run rate by late-2023 and are shooting for 2,000,000/year by 2026. Bloomberg projects VW selling more EVs than Tesla by 2024 and they are planning to have 240GWh/yr of in-house battery production by 2030. BYD in China is fully vertically integrated on EV production, moreso than Tesla who relies on 3rd party mining and on Panasonic for chemistries/cell p…

Post by RustyConsul » Sun, Jul 24, 2022, 4:52 PM UTC

justapassenger wrote: post #198

epistasis wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's at around 9% of market share and doubling annually. https://www.iea.org/commentaries/electric-cars-fend-off-supp... They are missing out on the easy part of the S-curve of adoption, and will have a far far harder time securing key competitive tech and supply chains by entering too late There are currently ~8 major battery manufacturers, and right now a large bevy of battery startups. But right now is probably th…

You don’t need to be manufacturing batteries to make EVs. Even vertical integration darling, Tesla, is buying most of their batteries (and the tech behind them) from suppliers like BYD and Panasonic. Their in-house efforts so far are not yielding any massive success. Batteries at the core are commodities, where you have laser thin margins and supplier model that is pulling R&D costs from many companies is basically o…

Post by RustyConsul » Sun, Jul 24, 2022, 5:00 PM UTC

tuatoru wrote: post #91

adrianN wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people wanted to travel 80km/h they could do so today. It is well known that going slower improves fuel efficiency. I'm asking for things like improved drivetrain efficiency and better aerodynamics.

The laws of physics inconveniently get in the way. If your 90% efficient drivetrain-tyre system uses 20 kWh per 100 km, then improving that to 95% efficient maybe reduces that to 17 kWh. Pencils and javelins have lower drag coefficients than cars. Unfortunately people don't fit inside them. A javelin-shaped vehicle big enough to fit a person comfortably inside is a train.

Post by dragonwriter » Sun, Jul 24, 2022, 5:19 PM UTC

dghughes wrote: post #157

bell-cot wrote: post #67

> Automotive giant Ford is shoring up its battery supply chain — partly by importing lower-cost, iron-based batteries popular in China — as it sprints to increase electric vehicle production. Old geezer's perspective: Back in its heyday, Ford Motor was one of the most vertically integrated (large manufacturing) companies in the world. They owned and operated their own fleet of ore carriers (cargo ships), to haul iron…

And if I recall correctly Ford was the only US vehicle manufacturer that did not request a bailout in 2008. That was impressive at the time and it made Ford look like solid well-run company that planned ahead.