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Ask HN: What is a sustainable methodology for taking notes of your learning?

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Re: Ask HN: What is a sustainable methodology for taking notes of your learning?

#51
post #11

I thought a lot about this and tried several different methods in my early twenties. I encourage you to abandon this pursuit and let your human mind perform it’s most wonderful magic: synthesizing, compressing and expanding mental inputs. Don’t get in the way of this magic: throw everything you can into the input chute and marvel at the connections that result.

I cannot echo this enough. As someone who's experimented with this a whole bunch with a million things, here's the thing I realized: Get good at understanding what the COMPUTER is good at vs what the HUMAN is good at. For me, all the wasted time was a result of me misunderstanding and mixing these two up.

Namely: Things like mindmaps and lots of little individual connected nodes (e.g. Obsidian) appeal in theory to human minds, because that's how our minds work.

But for me, I realized they weren't good tools for this because my brain is much much better at doing this than the software.

Ah, yes then: The software is good at 1) writing things down verbatim for detail and 2) re-reminding me of them when I go to look at them. The other stuff, the thinking and the connections, that's ME. That's NOT the software.

So for me that means. What I look at on the computer needs to be dense and well organized, not a mess of nodes. Which usually leads back to bigger, simpler chunks. I still use http://zim-wiki.org, but try to minimize the number of pages.

(To go broader, yes, this has very much deepened my skepticism of AI and machine-sentience)

Re: Ask HN: What is a sustainable methodology for taking notes of your learning?

#52
I've tried a lot of different solutions and none really work for me.

In the end, I went back to pencil and paper. Not pen, but pencil. I buy good quality notebooks like the Midori MD Paper A5, and good quality pencils like the Mars Lumograph.

I use the most minimal "system" possible which is a pared-back version of Bullet Journaling with all the dumb stuff removed.

Because I can't write nearly as fast as I can type it forces me to paraphrase, and I feel like the cognitive processing therein increases retention.

As an added benefit, it's trivial to incorporate diagrams, arrows and stuff to show logical links, etc.

Re: Ask HN: What is a sustainable methodology for taking notes of your learning?

#54
If you are truly interested in sustainable methodologies, I think one area that requires acceptance is that the volume one consumes needs to be second to the volume one can take meaningful notes on. There is no sustainable notes strategy that can support randomly opening HN and skimming a random article on the front page during a break at a bus halt.

If you want to take notes of what you are reading, no matter what method you choose you need to synthesize your ideas. You need to make them your own. That takes time. Personally, I found that for the time I was taking notes* I had to first discipline myself in how I consumed material. This lessened how much I read and made me focus on quality which in turn made me focus more on what I was reading which then turned into a positive feedback loop.

This answer may feel like a cop out, but I add it only because too many people try to find a note taking methodology to support an unsustainable consumption habit and then they think the note taking method was the issue when it really wasn’t.

* - I ultimately stopped taking notes on most things when I decided one day that I didn’t want to do it anymore. I narrowed my areas of interest to ones where mostly practical experience mattered much than theoretical knowledge (eg: illustrating). The only areas I take notes in still is security research and even that is far more practical

Re: Ask HN: What is a sustainable methodology for taking notes of your learning?

#55
1. Make sure your note taking system supports your goals. My goals: (A) assist my learning, (B) easily share content and get feedback from others.

2. When you produce content, consider (A) what you want to achieve by producing the content, and (B) how you want to find the content later.

3. Use one global namespace for named concepts. Category / taxonomy / tags belongs in metadata.

Why the goals? If your system supports your goals, you will continue to use it and get value from it. If your system doesn't support your goals, it becomes tedious to use, and you'll abandon your notes.

I encourage you to put your notes publicly on the web. Public notes have URLs, and there's no easier way to read content. You're going to remember notes.yourname.com/THING, or just go via notes.yourname.com to list / search.

-----

My information architecture consists of named concepts, journals and metadata.

Named concepts is the top level. Wikipedia uses this structure. There's one global namespace with sufficiently qualified names. You are going to remember your note by this name. Disambiguate in your global names.

Journals are organized by date. The advantage of journals is that you don't have to name anything. In general, it's nice to start with a journal, and collect named concepts on demand. Journals don't have to be discoverable.

Metadata helps you discover and index your notes. Categories and tags go here. But don't go nuts on categorization, think about what those categories should achieve. Remember the fact boxes on Wikipedia? Those are driven by concept metadata. Sometimes it's better to embed a table or a nested list on a concept page than introduce metadata. "Is this helpful to understand the concept?" - put it on the page. "Is this helpful to find/index your content?" - it's metadata.

Let's say you want to learn FUSE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_in_Userspace). Create a journal page for learning FUSE, and tag it as "open problem". Make sure you can list open problems. Each time you've got some time, open your FUSE journal, and work to understand something. Read the man page. Read wikipedia. Read the source. But annotate! Take notes in your journal as you go. When you revisit your FUSE journal, you can easily rediscover where you were last time, and decide where you want to go next.

Re: Ask HN: What is a sustainable methodology for taking notes of your learning?

#56
Yeah, so all I can do is maybe throw more gas on the fire by offering some things I found.

Karl Voit did a dissertation on using tags, and developed some software to help...

How to Use Tags https://karl-voit.at/2022/01/29/How-to-Use-Tags/ (and there are several other posts on the subject)

Tagstore: https://karl-voit.at/tagstore/en/papers.shtml

Personally, me still be try to find system to work in own small head. Many head acheings yet.

Re: Ask HN: What is a sustainable methodology for taking notes of your learning?

#57
post #38

For those using Zettelkasten, how do you know whether the connection you are making are useful? I can imagine it is easy to just link concepts.

I don't really think about it as linking notes. At least, "creating links" isn't the goal. Mostly, I'm trying to explore what I'm curious about.

I create links in two situations: (A) when I'm reading someone else's content, or (B) when I'm working on my own content.

When I'm reading someone else's content, I want to understand what they mean. I try to do that by building on other things I know. I also want to think further than the author. Apply it to my context.

When I'm creating my own content, I want to build on ideas. Refer to examples, compare to other ideas.

Re: Ask HN: What is a sustainable methodology for taking notes of your learning?

#58
My methodology became sustainable when I stopped taking notes [1] and accepted that learning happens through repetition.

Which is to say, rereading and multiple sources spread over time is much much more effective...and rereading and repetition from multiple sources is what note taking is.

But only if you go back and read your notes. And I didn't. So I stopped taking them.

What I realize now, writing this, is my note taking was driven by fear of missing out. That's how we are taught in school. If you don't take notes during the lecture, you will miss what you need to know for the test.

Life after school isn't that way. There's no final exams every sixteen weeks, no pop quiz on Tuesday, and no problem set tonight...or at least it's all optional.

And on the bright side, to a first approximation life entails missing out on almost everything. Time on Physics is time away from poetry, geology, and the pub.

Good luck.

[1]: I still make actionable notes. And I still make notes of my potentially actionable ideas.

Re: Ask HN: What is a sustainable methodology for taking notes of your learning?

#59
post #54

If you are truly interested in sustainable methodologies, I think one area that requires acceptance is that the volume one consumes needs to be second to the volume one can take meaningful notes on. There is no sustainable notes strategy that can support randomly opening HN and skimming a random article on the front page during a break at a bus halt. If you want to take notes of what you are reading, no matter what m…

> You need to make them your own.

I second this, I found that I truly understand the material when I am in the position to explain it, to ensure that, I write my notes as if I am an instructor and I explain things to a class under the assumption that they won't attend the lectures.

As I write notes, I find myself needing to further explain things - so as to fit the requirements - which results in consuming more material and reasoning about it.

This requires a non trivial amount of effort, and not everyone has the capacity to do it, but for a student, this probably works, the Feynman method and all that.

Re: Ask HN: What is a sustainable methodology for taking notes of your learning?

#60
post #38

For those using Zettelkasten, how do you know whether the connection you are making are useful? I can imagine it is easy to just link concepts.

I primarily use backlinks as a method of tagging and finding my notes easily using queries. I just write and link without thinking about it too hard. After all, Zettelkasten is for effortless and fluid writing; to transfer your knowledge digitally, and use it to offload mental work to something more spacious.
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