I'm not very familiar with how "nudging" is defined in the behavioral economics, and perhaps someone can enlighten me, but personally I find it hard to believe that it can be disproven that the way a choice is presented doesn't play any role in one's decision. The Goldilock principle is well-known. Most people instinctively choose the middle option, when given a three things to choose from. Does this study imply that…
You are misunderstanding. They're saying that there's an absence of evidence, not evidence of absence.
No evidence for nudging after adjusting for publication bias
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Re: No evidence for nudging after adjusting for publication bias
#32No evidence for nudging =/= nudging doesn't exist. I'm fairly sure anyone who has done A/B testing at scale has plenty of evidence that nudging works. Perhaps not up to the standard of science, but there are literally people who manipulate choice architecture for a living and I'm fairly convinced a lot of that stuff actually works.
What exactly makes you convinced that it works? To be specific: why wouldn’t there be bias in the A/B testing results, too? There are literally people who give astrological analyses for a living.
I'm sure many people here are in similar situations.
Re: No evidence for nudging after adjusting for publication bias
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
What exactly makes you convinced that it works? To be specific: why wouldn’t there be bias in the A/B testing results, too? There are literally people who give astrological analyses for a living.
A/B testing has a ton of issues as well that make it easy to be fooled https://biggestfish.substack.com/p/data-as-placebo
Re: No evidence for nudging after adjusting for publication bias
#34No evidence for nudging =/= nudging doesn't exist. I'm fairly sure anyone who has done A/B testing at scale has plenty of evidence that nudging works. Perhaps not up to the standard of science, but there are literally people who manipulate choice architecture for a living and I'm fairly convinced a lot of that stuff actually works.
Re: No evidence for nudging after adjusting for publication bias
#35No evidence for nudging =/= nudging doesn't exist. I'm fairly sure anyone who has done A/B testing at scale has plenty of evidence that nudging works. Perhaps not up to the standard of science, but there are literally people who manipulate choice architecture for a living and I'm fairly convinced a lot of that stuff actually works.
You don't have to prove something doesn't exist , you have to prove it exists.
Re: No evidence for nudging after adjusting for publication bias
#36Reading this article, it is good that the UK COVID policy wasn't based on behavioural nudging /sarcasm. The UK COVID policy heavily relied on this and one of the unwanted side effects was scaring a certain section of the population into submission. Although that may have been effective during COVID, it made it a lot harder for that segment of society to return back to normal.
Re: No evidence for nudging after adjusting for publication bias
#37I like to provide that HN community with some context as to what this means.
There are some 300 “research” departments in each of the major social sciences: psychology, sociology, economics and anthropology. If you believe what they say, about half of their mission is teaching and the other half is research. That’s a lot, tens of billions of dollars.
The nudge findings were among the few to not only reach the level of public knowledge but, more importantly, directly influence on public policy. To use the one I most familiar with: the so called default for defined contribution retirement plans, eg 401k. These government regs assumed, for good reason, that maximizing contributions was in the public interest. Based on the nudge findings, after much debate and effort, they were updated to dictate that the max options forms was pre selected in the brief it would cause more individuals would opt for that as opposed to contributing zero.
So far so good, right? In fact nudge has become a canonical example in introductory public policy courses as to how their research can in some sense make things better.
This meta-analytic finding turns on the authors’ method for measuring publication bias. Because I accept that, I must believe that this entire body of research, probably the signal behavioral economics work, is essentially worthless! Thus, all that effort has not only been wasted but the credibility of social science in general is damaged.
Adding this to the well/known gamesmanship in peer review, debate over tenure and etc. means it’s past time to reform a large chunk of academia.
Re: No evidence for nudging after adjusting for publication bias
#38I agree with other commenters that it's unlikely nudges never have an impact. We should also be wary of high-profile debunkings, now that they're increasingly in fashion due to the replication crisis and the general dour mood. It's easy to p-hack a result into significance, but you can just as easily hack results into insignificance. These days, both findings and debunkings need a skeptical eye.
That's different from the existence of the phenomenon.
Same thing happened to Kahneman, Daniel (2011) and his book of Thinking, Fast and Slow. He acknowledges that several pieces of evidence he presents in the book has disappeared and can't be replicated.
He still thinks he is right, he just admits that he does not have strong evidence anymore.
What is left is a theory with less and less evidence supporting it.
Re: No evidence for nudging after adjusting for publication bias
#39Reading this article, it is good that the UK COVID policy wasn't based on behavioural nudging /sarcasm. The UK COVID policy heavily relied on this and one of the unwanted side effects was scaring a certain section of the population into submission. Although that may have been effective during COVID, it made it a lot harder for that segment of society to return back to normal.
As an example to differentiate: drinking a homeopathic solution for health has no effect; driving a radium solution for health hurts.
Re: No evidence for nudging after adjusting for publication bias
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
"... evidence that nudging works. Perhaps not up to the standard of science..." That's pretty close to saying it doesn't work. The point of this meta-study was precisely to show that the evidence claimed to support nudging was probably attributable to random variation + unnatural selection, where the unnatural selection was publication choice: either the researchers who got negative (null) results chose not to bother…
>That's pretty close to saying it doesn't work. No it's really not. To say things a different way, I don't think this study will change anything for people actually doing choice architecture in applied settings. They have results that speak for themselves.