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A new way to predict when software jobs will become automated

aifuture.substack.com

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Re: A new way to predict when software jobs will become automated

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-checkout at supermarkets does 90% of the work. The 10% of work remaining is done by a human supervising the self-checkout stations. And same will happen to development. Lots of tasks will be automated and less people will be needed as a result.

Self-checkout isn't a great example since it's mainly just shifting the work from one human (the employee) to another (the customer), rather than true automation. As a side note, we were told decades ago that visual programming would similarly displace developers; however, I'm doing perfectly fine

Self-checkout isn't a great example since it's mainly just shifting the work from one human (the employee) to another (the customer), rather than true automation.

It may not be true automation, but it's very effective, and it's something we're seeing not only at the grocery store. What used to involve calling a person up and asking for services is now done through web portals... taking a few minutes of the person's time.

The real issue in this degradation of customer service is usually not the time cost but the fact that, while it doesn't change the amount of random human error that occurs, it shifts the penalties onto the users... if your travel agent screws up, you get a refund... if you screw up (in something that used to be someone else's job) you're told to eat the costs.

Thing is, the replacement of a process when an ersatz alternative may not be "true automation" but it doesn't need to be in order to work. And job destruction across an industry isn't 0/1. There are still jobs in car factories in Detroit, just far fewer of them. There will still be jobs for truck drivers in 2040, but there probably won't be nearly as many. Employers will still need programmers; they might not need the same number of us. It only takes a dip of a few percent in job supply to cause wages and working conditions to crater (that's inelasticity), and even this says nothing about the ripple effects and systemic calamities (up to and including the possibility of economic depressions that last decades) that occur when large numbers of working people lose substantial income.

Re: A new way to predict when software jobs will become automated

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-checkout at supermarkets does 90% of the work. The 10% of work remaining is done by a human supervising the self-checkout stations. And same will happen to development. Lots of tasks will be automated and less people will be needed as a result.

Self checkout at supermarkets absolutely sucks. For the customer it is a huge downgrade in experience.

I think this experience probably varies a lot person-to-person. For someone like me who often experiences social anxiety even from the most minimal of interactions, being able to keep my earbuds in and not have to talk to a stranger can be a huge difference if I'm happening to feel stressed on a given day. The biggest issue I used to have was when I wanted to carry something out instead of putting it in a bag, but since all they check for bagging is that the weight is placed on the surface, you can just put the item on the surface outside of a bag after scanning, and it will accept it as being "bagged".

Re: A new way to predict when software jobs will become automated

#73
post #4

> Once an AI gets just 1% efficient at automation, it achieves 100% efficiency quickly thereafter This is really optimistic and completely overlooks the 80/20 problems that have plagued both AI automation and traditional automation. The AI sweeps up the easy cases and humans are left to fix, or paper over with heuristics, the remainder. Example? Speech-to-text. It's pretty good and the spread of automated closed capt…

I agree with you in your analysis. And yet in the majority of jobs, the level of work that is required is at a level that AI will be able to effectively replace.

The jobs that it will replace will be the entry level jobs. It will replace the jobs where excellence is not required. It will replace the jobs where quantity matters more than quality. These are the jobs that everyone starts at. Some people learn and grow and become experts. And some remain at some lower level for their whole career. This works well when there is enough work to go around. When AI replaces the need for low-end professionals, where will experts learn their trade?

When combustion engines replaced horses in many applications, they did not eliminate all horse handling jobs. There were just significantly fewer horse handling jobs left.

Re: A new way to predict when software jobs will become automated

#74

Any decent developer will use existing libraries and tools for common tasks, so 90% of the code is already written. The remaining 10% of the code is business and use case specifics that change frequently and is made by pulling the pieces provided by libraries together. The ai assisted auto complete will likely never be able to understand use cases, for that it would need sentience - and even humans fail at understand…

Right. The efficiencies are already here in the form of CI/CD, workflow tools like IntelliSense, and boring old stuff like ORMs and libraries. It's probably about 50% faster to make a common CRUD app than it was 20 years ago. Luckily the industry has found a way to compensate for this by building the common CRUD app in React and Microservices, so now it takes 3x longer again and requires twice the staff to maintain i…

> so now it takes 3x longer again and requires twice the staff to maintain it

precisely. or like with aws, what used to be a sysadmin is now two to three devops engineers doing the same stuff. if anything ai will enable even more people to get into software dev and thus allow even more businesses to thrive and thus create more jobs. ais and tools like you mentioned are like fertilisers. the more crap the more jobs for us.

Re: A new way to predict when software jobs will become automated

#75
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing people forget about whether it's 80/20 (and the last 20 takes infinite time) or whether it's 80/20 (and it happens super-linearly) is the nature of the 20. One of two things tends to happen. 1) The 20 is a fundamentally different problem, but is itself solved by applying different new developments (e.g. most breakthrough devices: semiconductor manufacture and design, cellular phones, iPhone) 2) The 80 is so…

I would argue that horse drawn carriages were a 100% solution for something like 8000 years of human history. It’s been barely over a hundred years where there has been something that could efficiently replace them and the ‘self driving’ modern replacement have maybe 0.01% the smarts of a horse. I mean, go get drunk and pass out on the back of your horse and the chances are real good it’s going to take you home witho…

Horses produce a lot of shit, need to be fed, generate rather large biohazards when they expire, and have an oscillating motion that isn't a great match for drunkenness.

"A horse for every person" probably wasn't the best of times.

On the other hand, they are excellent listeners.

Re: A new way to predict when software jobs will become automated

#76
Marx talks about this a bit in Das Capital... You would think that the automation of an industry improves working conditions inside of it, in practice the opposite has usually been true: fewer people work longer hours in ever-more-tedious ways. So you used to go to work to design something, but in this vision of the future, you now go to work to craft prompts to DALL-E-2 so that it can design something for you, but because design is now so much cheaper you have to do three or four times as much design in the day, and this mechanism only doubles your rate of production... Gets to be a real mess.

However, I would notice that we have been blessed with a different exponential, which we have been riding into the future. That is the exponential of processor speed and storage and all of the other computing resources. It's a perennial observation that our actual programs have not gotten much faster. The extra resources are immediately wasted. The reputation of hiring developers from developing countries, the cheap foreign labor force, for us has always been that you get a big ball of mud which you cannot maintain very easily. I do not see AI helping with this, but rather exacerbating it. Beforehand, there was a reasonable limit to how many lines of code you might expect from a developer per day, maybe a couple hundred if they test their code well and do other things to refactor and simplify. But with AI you could imagine it multiplying 10-fold, just throw more mud at the problem, the mud ball is already huge: what could it hurt.

In fact, we may see the Smalltalk revolution! Of course this has been prophecied before, but never really come to pass. In this more-dystopian form, the idea is that everyone leans heavily into AI and something like kubernetes for modularization. Every single cell, every pod, in these gigantic supercomputer clusters which shall exists to serve up a smallish blog, needs to do something small enough that with its abundant AI generated code, it can nevertheless live and die successfully, spawning new processes as needed. The blog is thousands of small mud balls, and they work together in signaling pathways that are no longer understood by any human who works on the blog, and the dominant metaphor ceases to be one of mechanism and design and inputs and outputs... Rather it is biological, or even ecological. To start such systems up requires a story of “childhood” where a harness coordinates the first thousand nanoservicesv and grows the cluster into a template for the living application, then it needs AI-style “training” to reconfigure itself to handle actual business purposes, finally it will be released on the world, only to make mistakes which we will have to educate it to discern as mistakes... We certainly can't fix the system, we don't know how it works. Not what Alan Kay envisioned! But who knows. Maybe our kubernetes clusters will go to school one day.

Re: A new way to predict when software jobs will become automated

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self-checkout at supermarkets does 90% of the work. The 10% of work remaining is done by a human supervising the self-checkout stations. And same will happen to development. Lots of tasks will be automated and less people will be needed as a result.

Maybe our engineering jobs will consist of reviewing AI-generated PRs all day…

Oh, that didn't cross my mind. Yes, that's a serious potential.

Take it a few more steps and then you get to automated analysis tools, system simulations, and NLP systems. This looks essentially like IronMan's Jarvis running heuristics interactively.

"Which edge cases did you cover?"

`I covered 3000 edge cases extrapolated from these bug reports...`

Re: A new way to predict when software jobs will become automated

#79

Any decent developer will use existing libraries and tools for common tasks, so 90% of the code is already written. The remaining 10% of the code is business and use case specifics that change frequently and is made by pulling the pieces provided by libraries together. The ai assisted auto complete will likely never be able to understand use cases, for that it would need sentience - and even humans fail at understand…

The AI will need a knowledge base wiyh real world information. That may take a long time before it exists. If the scaling hypothesis doez hold you could get that knowledge base as part of a large language model.

You could have a setup like the Socratic Models paper where the code AI talks to the language model AI which is fine tuned on facts about the business context.

I just don’t know how far out we are from that. Someone at Deepmind, OpenAI or Salesforce (Salesforce have their own code AI research unit that few people know about) should work on this.

If someone reading this has a background in economics I’d like to hear what they have to say about this. In all these discussions on this topic I never see anyone bring up economics or empirical economics papers.

Re: A new way to predict when software jobs will become automated

#80
post #76

Marx talks about this a bit in Das Capital ... You would think that the automation of an industry improves working conditions inside of it, in practice the opposite has usually been true: fewer people work longer hours in ever-more-tedious ways. So you used to go to work to design something, but in this vision of the future, you now go to work to craft prompts to DALL-E-2 so that it can design something for you, but…

What’s the “Smalltalk revolution?”
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