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Microsoft may halt development work on Silverlight plugin after next release

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Re: Microsoft may halt development work on Silverlight plugin after next release

#131

Post by WayneDB »

rbanffy wrote: post #98
xradionut wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a few decades people accessed email on text based terminals. There's plenty of applications with more complex UIs than email...

I have other applications with more complicated UI's also relying on HTML and AJAX and they work just fine. What kind of web applications do you have that would require Silverlight or something similar?

How about an email application that handles keyboard acceleration really well? This can be done easily with Silverlight (in or out of the browser), but not so much with HTML. That's why Gmail has crummy keyboard handling. In Thunderbird, I can tab my way around the entire interface if I want to or use keyboard shortcuts.

I'm sure the Gmail team could do a bunch of hacks to fix this, but that's the problem. You have to hack-up everything to make HTML work well as an application platform.

Re: Microsoft may halt development work on Silverlight plugin after next release

#132

Post by WayneDB »

rbanffy wrote: post #130
WayneDB wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trirand grid that you linked to doesn't even get keyboard or mouse focus right. It doesn't even get row selection right. If you think that's a good grid, I don't expect you to see anything remarkable about the grid I posted.

The most remarkable thing about the grid you posted is that it won't run on my computer. In fact, it won't run on any of my computers. Looking around my office, I gather it would run on about four or five computers out of the about 50 here.

Fine. Let's compare it to any native grid that runs on your preferred OS then.

Re: Microsoft may halt development work on Silverlight plugin after next release

#133

Post by WayneDB »

rbanffy wrote: post #114
WayneDB wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're allowed. I'm also allowed to not be held hostage by a "standards committee" that never gets anything done.

You know you are hostage of a company that may discontinue the technology you depend on any moment they want, right?

I prefer being hostage to Microsoft rather than Apple, the Gnome team or the KDE team. Outside of building your own OS and your own user interface, you only have slightly more of a degree of freedom with 'nix.

At least my master gives me a 'created-date' field on every file. Gosh, that makes sense. I'd have to write my own file-system or use some outdated, unsupported crap to have that on 'nix.

Re: Microsoft may halt development work on Silverlight plugin after next release

#134

Post by rbanffy »

WayneDB wrote: post #133
rbanffy wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know you are hostage of a company that may discontinue the technology you depend on any moment they want, right?

I prefer being hostage to Microsoft rather than Apple, the Gnome team or the KDE team. Outside of building your own OS and your own user interface, you only have slightly more of a degree of freedom with 'nix. At least my master gives me a 'created-date' field on every file. Gosh, that makes sense. I'd have to write my own file-system or use some outdated, unsupported crap to have that on 'nix.

It can happen with Apple, if you rely on a proprietary technology they control, but it cannot happen with Gnome or KDE because, if you don't like what they do, you can always roll out your own.

I see you are unfamiliar with modern *nix OSs. Mine gives me both creation time and access time:

  rbanffy@computer:~$ ls -l --time=atime a.out
  -rwxrwxr-x 1 rbanffy rbanffy 8378 2011-11-10 15:24 a.out
  rbanffy@computer:~$ ls -l --time=ctime a.out
  -rwxrwxr-x 1 rbanffy rbanffy 8378 2011-10-22 19:31 a.out

Re: Microsoft may halt development work on Silverlight plugin after next release

#135

Post by WayneDB »

joelthelion wrote: post #91
WayneDB wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the problem. HTML/CSS/JS is disgusting to someone who knows the power of a good native SDK. People who only do web dev just don't know what quality is.

Quality is also your stuff running on anyone's computer, and not depending on a big company that has the power to kill your stuff and force you to rewrite it.

Sure. That's nice about HTML, but too bad you lose almost every other quality thing because of it.

I don't understand why everyone is so hung up on HTML though. The internet is not HTML, the internet is TCP/IP and all the protocols that ride on it like HTTP.

Why can't we just leave HTML the way it is, use it primarily for making nice documents and come up with something new for apps? You know, instead of trying to shoe-horn everything into a spec that has to cover both apps and documents or anything in-between?

Why isn't there a standards committee for a kit like Silverlight or Flash? The runtime would have to be built once for each platform, but that's no different than HTML.

Re: Microsoft may halt development work on Silverlight plugin after next release

#136

Post by WayneDB »

rbanffy wrote: post #85
hvs wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You can" implies that you have some sort of say in the matter. Why should everyone have to implement technologies that are "easy and free" just because you say so?

Good point. You can, but you shouldn't. And I won't use it or encourage its use. In fact, I'll speak against it on every opportunity I have.

So you don't use any proprietary technology then? What kind of car do you drive?

Re: Microsoft may halt development work on Silverlight plugin after next release

#137

Post by WayneDB »

rbanffy wrote: post #134
WayneDB wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer being hostage to Microsoft rather than Apple, the Gnome team or the KDE team. Outside of building your own OS and your own user interface, you only have slightly more of a degree of freedom with 'nix. At least my master gives me a 'created-date' field on every file. Gosh, that makes sense. I'd have to write my own file-system or use some outdated, unsupported crap to have that on 'nix.

It can happen with Apple, if you rely on a proprietary technology they control, but it cannot happen with Gnome or KDE because, if you don't like what they do, you can always roll out your own. I see you are unfamiliar with modern *nix OSs. Mine gives me both creation time and access time: rbanffy@computer:~$ ls -l --time=atime a.out -rwxrwxr-x 1 rbanffy rbanffy 8378 2011-11-10 15:24 a.out rbanffy@computer:~$ ls -l -…

ctime is change time, not creation time.

http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/20460/how-do-i-do-a-... "Note that the ctime (ls -lc) is not the file creation time, it's the inode change time."

So, like I said...yes you do have to roll your own to get it. Enjoy that.

Re: Microsoft may halt development work on Silverlight plugin after next release

#138

Post by ceejayoz »

WayneDB wrote: post #129
ceejayoz wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see anything particularly remarkable there. http://www.trirand.com/blog/jqgrid/jqgrid.html

The trirand grid that you linked to doesn't even get keyboard or mouse focus right. It doesn't even get row selection right. If you think that's a good grid, I don't expect you to see anything remarkable about the grid I posted.

Both of those work fine here, and there are a half dozen other jQuery grids available if you want to try them out.

Re: Microsoft may halt development work on Silverlight plugin after next release

#139

Post by rbanffy »

WayneDB wrote: post #136
rbanffy wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. You can, but you shouldn't. And I won't use it or encourage its use. In fact, I'll speak against it on every opportunity I have.

So you don't use any proprietary technology then? What kind of car do you drive?

Of course I do. But I avoid it whenever it's possible and active advocate for non-proprietary alternatives.

Re: Microsoft may halt development work on Silverlight plugin after next release

#140

Post by rbanffy »

WayneDB wrote: post #137
rbanffy wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can happen with Apple, if you rely on a proprietary technology they control, but it cannot happen with Gnome or KDE because, if you don't like what they do, you can always roll out your own. I see you are unfamiliar with modern *nix OSs. Mine gives me both creation time and access time: rbanffy@computer:~$ ls -l --time=atime a.out -rwxrwxr-x 1 rbanffy rbanffy 8378 2011-11-10 15:24 a.out rbanffy@computer:~$ ls -l -…

ctime is change time, not creation time. http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/20460/how-do-i-do-a-... "Note that the ctime (ls -lc) is not the file creation time, it's the inode change time." So, like I said...yes you do have to roll your own to get it. Enjoy that.

Interesting. In this case, the creation time and i-node change time are the same - the file was written as new.

I see where you are going. I guess I'll have to move to FreeBSD to get file "birth time" support (or look into POSIX extended attributes). It's more or less a painless change. FreeBSD also has ZFS support, which is the filesystem to rule'em all. Either way, I don't expect Silverlight or WPF to run on FreeBSD.

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