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A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

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Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#471

Post by majormajor »

lapcat wrote: post #461
novok wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or anything else for that matter, such as government forms, bank accounts, etc. The phone number doesn't have to be attached to a real device, it could be google voice or whatever else and you could expense it like a proper business expense, etc. In general it's a good idea to keep your business and personal accounts as seperate as possible. It's similar to the reason why you have separate business bank accounts, ema…

[flagged]

You're looking at HN as a conversation where someone is giving "you" unsolicited advice that you are taking as criticism instead of as a open forum where that comment is also generally useful to all the lurkers out there.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#472

Post by cgriswald »

saxonww wrote: post #392
cgriswald wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy is upset that the free service he uses employs imperfect AI and it affected him personally. I agree we shouldn't be using AI for everything and we might even include humans after an AI makes a call just to verify the call. However, that has a cost and this guy isn't paying. I'd guess this guy wouldn't pay, because having to deal with occasional AI errors is part of the cost and he clearly doesn't want to pay…

Yes, it was rude. And if Twitter wants to ban someone for being rude, that's their prerogative and I support it. I also support the rude person relating how they were banned for violating a rule they don't think they could possibly have violated, and I can look at it and say "Wow this person was rude but that was yet another instance of Twitter being stupid. I probably wouldn't like this person. I'm also not interest…

I think the chances were slim. I think he reduced those chances significantly by being rude. Assuming someone who can help sees his blog post, I think he's also reduced his chances that they'll want to spend their time helping him.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#473

Post by actually_a_dog »

jjulius wrote: post #424
actually_a_dog wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. And, "just following orders" ( i.e. "just doing his job") isn't a legal defense to following unlawful orders. Nor should it be a moral defense to doing unethical things just because there's a paycheck involved.

Can you tell us OP's "orders" were, though? Because at this point you're just speculating and assuming the worst. Your comment about people working for unethical companies for a paycheck also comes off as classist and out of touch. Edit: Hell, they said "ex" engineer. For all we know, they could have very well been there early on, taken issue with what they saw and then left because of that. Yet you and at least two…

Anyone who's been awake for the past 5 years knows how shitty and unethical a company Facebook is. If they'd been there since the beginning, they could have figured out how lets's say "flexible" Zuckerberg's ethics were. And there are plenty of companies that are ethically benign, if not doing real good in the world. To suggest that people should act ethically, even when money is involved, is not classist. And, if you think it is, consider what "class" a(n ex-) Facebook engineer is likely to fall into. (Hint: the one with the financial means to care about ethics.)

And I will thank you very much to stop putting words in my mouth. I have not suggested that anyone not be able to reintegrate into society. I am, however, suggesting that they pay their dues back to society before doing so.

Tell me: what acts do you feel are justified by "just following orders," and under what circumstances?

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#474

Post by lapcat »

novok wrote: post #468
lapcat wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Quoted post unavailable.

> I'm just giving general advice about how it's good to keep things business and personal things separate in a public forum where others reading can also learn from the advice.

Literally nobody on Hacker News needs this advice, and in general, unsolicited advice, especially from strangers, is unwelcome.

If you have something like "here's a hidden Terminal defaults write command I discovered that is largely unknown and will solve your problem", that might be a different matter. But your advice is so obvious that it doesn't need to be said at all. In an ideal world where everyone had unlimited time, unlimited money, and no other constraints, everyone would always follow the "good advice", but in a non-ideal world there are many tradeoffs to consider, and if you're talking to a stranger, you don't know their personal tradeoffs. Of course I've thought about these things, as any intelligent person has, and made my choices based on my circumstances.

There's a level of conceit in thinking that other intelligent adults need advice like this. You seem to believe you're being helpful, but effectively it's insulting the intelligence of others.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#475

Post by lapcat »

majormajor wrote: post #471
lapcat wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You're looking at HN as a conversation where someone is giving "you" unsolicited advice that you are taking as criticism instead of as a open forum where that comment is also generally useful to all the lurkers out there.

> that comment is also generally useful to all the lurkers out there.

Is it though?

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#476

Post by cgriswald »

lapcat wrote: post #425
cgriswald wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy is upset that the free service he uses employs imperfect AI and it affected him personally. I agree we shouldn't be using AI for everything and we might even include humans after an AI makes a call just to verify the call. However, that has a cost and this guy isn't paying. I'd guess this guy wouldn't pay, because having to deal with occasional AI errors is part of the cost and he clearly doesn't want to pay…

I think what you're missing here is that the author is not looking for your sympathy, nor Twitter's sympathy. There's a larger point the author wishes to make about Twitter: > Somehow they can do this, but racial slurs are generally pretty okay, white supremacy is largely ignored, and every Twitter troll I’ve reported for harassment gets a three-week investigation and then a “We find they did not violate our rules” e…

I think you're being overly generous here.

He doesn't offer examples of the harassment he reported. Even if he had, he's comparing Twitter AI-flagged revenge porn posts against user-reported harassment posts. The former is pretty clear cut and Twitter flagged it themselves. The latter may be a judgment call and was probably reported by the alleged target. His rudeness undercuts any such argument anyway, since we can't be sure the rep who reviewed his case didn't just see this and not waste his time on it.

His main point seems to be "Twitter sucks." I agree. It sucks. So I don't use it.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#477

Post by cgriswald »

ineedasername wrote: post #451
cgriswald wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This guy is upset that the free service he uses employs imperfect AI and it affected him personally. I agree we shouldn't be using AI for everything and we might even include humans after an AI makes a call just to verify the call. However, that has a cost and this guy isn't paying. I'd guess this guy wouldn't pay, because having to deal with occasional AI errors is part of the cost and he clearly doesn't want to pay…

>He stopped being right with his verbal abuse. No. He did not stop being right about a mistake, and its reasonable remedy, by making an unrelated mistake himself. You might argue that the reasonable remedy to his abuse is also to receive a ban, but that is a different argument. It should also be logged as a separate disciplinary actions, not just because a petty Twitter employee got their nose tweaked by a frustrated…

I don't think we disagree here. He's right about the ban, but he's made the situation more complex and he's not right about the whole situation.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#478

Post by rpdillon »

tablespoon wrote: post #462
rpdillon wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having ML handle appeals strikes me as implausible, but possible.

I guess the question is "is it Twitter's goal to have the appeals process work, or just exist?" If they have some dumb automation that just rejects most initial attempts, it could discourage their users to the point where they can employ a much smaller staff to handle the appeals. Especially if the sanction can be solved by the user just deleting the content.

I'll admit that my initial comment was somewhat biased coming from another thread in this discussion discussing verbal abuse of the moderation team. In that context, my assumption was that they were human, naturally. Your point is fair, though, especially considering Twitter's scale.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#479

Post by lapcat »

cgriswald wrote: post #476
lapcat wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what you're missing here is that the author is not looking for your sympathy, nor Twitter's sympathy. There's a larger point the author wishes to make about Twitter: > Somehow they can do this, but racial slurs are generally pretty okay, white supremacy is largely ignored, and every Twitter troll I’ve reported for harassment gets a three-week investigation and then a “We find they did not violate our rules” e…

I think you're being overly generous here. He doesn't offer examples of the harassment he reported. Even if he had, he's comparing Twitter AI-flagged revenge porn posts against user-reported harassment posts. The former is pretty clear cut and Twitter flagged it themselves. The latter may be a judgment call and was probably reported by the alleged target. His rudeness undercuts any such argument anyway, since we can'…

> Even if he had, he's comparing Twitter AI-flagged revenge porn posts against user-reported harassment posts. The former is pretty clear cut and Twitter flagged it themselves. The latter may be a judgment call and was probably reported by the alleged target.

I would consider humans manually reporting tweets to be much more reliable than AI flagging, especially given the bizarre false positive results we've seen from Twitter AI flagging.

I've personally reported tweets, with the same kind of non-results. Mostly bots though rather than harassment.

> His main point seems to be "Twitter sucks." I agree. It sucks. So I don't use it.

Well, the author isn't using it right now either, intentionally.

Re: A clip from Stray got me banned from Twitter

#480

Post by jjulius »

actually_a_dog wrote: post #473
jjulius wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you tell us OP's "orders" were, though? Because at this point you're just speculating and assuming the worst. Your comment about people working for unethical companies for a paycheck also comes off as classist and out of touch. Edit: Hell, they said "ex" engineer. For all we know, they could have very well been there early on, taken issue with what they saw and then left because of that. Yet you and at least two…

Anyone who's been awake for the past 5 years knows how shitty and unethical a company Facebook is. If they'd been there since the beginning, they could have figured out how lets's say "flexible" Zuckerberg's ethics were. And there are plenty of companies that are ethically benign, if not doing real good in the world. To suggest that people should act ethically, even when money is involved, is not classist. And, if yo…

Yet still not a single attempt to understand OP's perspective, actions there, time there, or reason for departure. Just an insistence on an immediate straight shot to, "Nope, they have dues that must be repaid no matter what".

Got it.

Edit: And again, I must emphasize nuance. People talented enough to work at a FAANG absolutely can have significant financial issues, outstanding debts, etc. that may make them prioritize finances above ethics. I am surprised that this continuously seems so lost on HN users.

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