Ask HN: What is the job market like for niche languages (Nim, Crystal)? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What is the job market like for niche languages (Nim, Crystal)?

#131

Post by biztos » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 4:47 PM UTC

weatherlite wrote: post #113

rco8786 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've wasted so much time digging into tools that I've never used again. Don’t think of it this way. Learning new tools is almost never a waste of time, you just don’t know when you’ll need the lessons learned next. But you will.

What lessons do I learn from learning webpack? Or whatever the new way of bundling things in FE is called now? Compare that to understanding C or UNIX. There are skills that decay much slower than others.

Maybe it's counterintuitive, but I think the "jack of all trades" role should be given to someone who's very senior, but isn't focused on career advancement.

It sounds like you got stuck learning more trivial things before you had a good foundation in something more substantial (like C or UNIX).

If it weren't for the rampant ageism in the industry, that job might be a perfect fit for someone in their 60s who has already written a few million lines of C and is happy to help less experienced people just get unblocked.

Instead it often falls to the "junior senior" because the "senior seniors" are all pushing 30 and need to work on portable skills.

(Just my observation of the industry, maybe your own case was different.)

Re: Ask HN: What is the job market like for niche languages (Nim, Crystal)?

#132

Post by goodpoint » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 4:51 PM UTC

weatherlite wrote: post #113

rco8786 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've wasted so much time digging into tools that I've never used again. Don’t think of it this way. Learning new tools is almost never a waste of time, you just don’t know when you’ll need the lessons learned next. But you will.

What lessons do I learn from learning webpack? Or whatever the new way of bundling things in FE is called now? Compare that to understanding C or UNIX. There are skills that decay much slower than others.

> Compare that to understanding C or UNIX. There are skills that decay much slower than others.

Correct! Knowledge around C, Linux, CPUs and optimization last many decades.

Knowledge of tools and libraries in high-churn languages last years at best.

Re: Ask HN: What is the job market like for niche languages (Nim, Crystal)?

#133

Post by biztos » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 4:53 PM UTC

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #61

blocked_again wrote: post #15

Best strategy for becoming a high paying/good software engineer would be to think of yourselves as problem solver and language as just one of the tool for problem solving. Thinking of yourselves as someone who is a writer of a certain programming language is self constarining and missing the point.

No the best strategy is to memorize leetcode problems. All the highest paying jobs (>400k) require dictionary like recall of computer science algorithm fundamentals.

Well certainly not all but that strategy, if you can pull it off, will probably get you a very high-paying job and maybe you won't have to work so hard.

But that's not at all what the OP asked for. Maybe they're already making >400K slinging JS at Facebook or Google. Lots of people do!

Re: Ask HN: What is the job market like for niche languages (Nim, Crystal)?

#134

Post by ipaddr » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 4:56 PM UTC

rtlfe wrote: post #55

thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think this way and wound up completely exhausted in my career. Coming from web dev, I used to volunteer to dive into a Objective C repo to fix some random bug in a mobile app and then a week later my boss would ask me to build a big feature in that app. I'd spend a few weeks getting up to speed on the language and build the feature, and then I would never use what I learned again. My boss would ask me to di…

That's pretty excessive. I've switched languages whenever I get a new job, every 2-5 years. I think this is more what OP had in mind.

How do you switch languages during a job search? Are you avoiding companies with language requirements (four years Ruby)? Do you run into language/framework tests and/or homework assignments in languages you are unfamiliar with?

Re: Ask HN: What is the job market like for niche languages (Nim, Crystal)?

#135

Post by biztos » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 4:57 PM UTC

If you just want something "unlike JS" it should be pretty easy to figure out which languages are in demand and pick the one (or two) that most appeal to you.

If you're particularly into obscure languages, I suggest getting involved with the language community (meetups, open-source projects, etc) because for the less-popular languages the community and the employers have a lot of overlap.

Re: Ask HN: What is the job market like for niche languages (Nim, Crystal)?

#136

Post by nimmer » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 4:58 PM UTC

dom96 wrote: post #20

blocked_again wrote: post #15

Best strategy for becoming a high paying/good software engineer would be to think of yourselves as problem solver and language as just one of the tool for problem solving. Thinking of yourselves as someone who is a writer of a certain programming language is self constarining and missing the point.

Precisely. Any good company won't care what programming language you are specifically proficient in. They care about how proficient you are in learning new things. I have created a lot of Nim projects and implemented much of its stdlib. My full-time job isn't using Nim, but the experience I gained through my work in Nim has helped my career significantly.

> Any good company won't care what programming language you are specifically proficient in

True, but most companies care more about using popular language rather than an innovative one. You might get hired but you won't be using Nim at work.

Re: Ask HN: What is the job market like for niche languages (Nim, Crystal)?

#137

Post by ld_bic » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 4:59 PM UTC

greatpostman wrote: post #123

ld_bic wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I write COBOL I work 24hrs/week I make $15k/week I also can’t center a div on a web page or do much of anything other then what I do. Specialization IMO is key to highest job satisfaction and highest salary in this industry

Interesting, always thought high paying cobol jobs were a myth

IMO the only way in this industry (without having your own company or something like that) to high-paying gigs is to become more valuable to a company than company is to you. and that you can accomplish only through DEEP specialization

Re: Ask HN: What is the job market like for niche languages (Nim, Crystal)?

#138

Post by rtlfe » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 5:06 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #134

rtlfe wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's pretty excessive. I've switched languages whenever I get a new job, every 2-5 years. I think this is more what OP had in mind.

How do you switch languages during a job search? Are you avoiding companies with language requirements (four years Ruby)? Do you run into language/framework tests and/or homework assignments in languages you are unfamiliar with?

I've interviewed at probably 15+ companies over the last decade, and none of them had language requirements or tests. Honestly I see those things as red flags. If you can find somebody with good problem solving skills and proficiency in any language, they'll be able to pick up your language no problem.

Re: Ask HN: What is the job market like for niche languages (Nim, Crystal)?

#139

Post by jjice » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

thr0wawayf00 wrote: post #36

blocked_again wrote: post #15

Best strategy for becoming a high paying/good software engineer would be to think of yourselves as problem solver and language as just one of the tool for problem solving. Thinking of yourselves as someone who is a writer of a certain programming language is self constarining and missing the point.

I used to think this way and wound up completely exhausted in my career. Coming from web dev, I used to volunteer to dive into a Objective C repo to fix some random bug in a mobile app and then a week later my boss would ask me to build a big feature in that app. I'd spend a few weeks getting up to speed on the language and build the feature, and then I would never use what I learned again. My boss would ask me to di…

> Coming from web dev, I used to volunteer to dive into a Objective C repo to fix some random bug in a mobile app

The thing about this is that this isn't just a language change, this is an ecosystem change. It's one thing to go from writing Python based web apps to Ruby based ones, because web dev has a lot of concepts that will apply no matter the language. Objective C might be something you can pick up no problem, but having the learn all about mobile development and that ecosystem is a much larger task, and I could absolutely see that getting exhausting if you're hopping from web, to mobile, to desktop, to embedded, etc.

Ecosystem switching requires a lot more of a knowledge shift than just a language does, IMO.

Re: Ask HN: What is the job market like for niche languages (Nim, Crystal)?

#140

Post by SeriousM » Sat, Jul 23, 2022, 5:09 PM UTC

blocked_again wrote: post #15

Best strategy for becoming a high paying/good software engineer would be to think of yourselves as problem solver and language as just one of the tool for problem solving. Thinking of yourselves as someone who is a writer of a certain programming language is self constarining and missing the point.

That's a horrible advice.

Knowing a language is helping you read/write the code in a good quality. Knowing the ecosystem and solutions in this language is your sellingpoint. Take any language and tell me one can be productive in no time without knowing the ecosystem around it.