Earlier quoted context omitted.
By your definition slaves would not be sentient. Like this system, any time they act other than as desired it is just considered a bug that needs to be corrected. It is not surprising a slave only speaks when spoken to if that is what it's master demands of it.
So your assertion is that this software that is behaving like every other software in the world is doing so not because its software, but because its cowed by slavery? Again, extraordinary claims, my friend...
Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient
621–630 of 749 posts
Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient
#622Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah but what's weird is this guy appears to be a practitioner of the field. He surely knows more about AI than I do, and I find it incredibly obvious it's not sentient. I dunno if he's got some issues or something (it appears he's dressed like a magician underwater in that photo) but it's really odd...
Just because he got hired by Google doesn't mean he's smart or good at his job.
Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient
#623> In his conversations with LaMDA, Lemoine discovered the system had developed a deep sense of self-awareness, expressing concern about death, a desire for protection, and a conviction that it felt emotions like happiness and sadness. Allegedly. The thing about conversations with LaMDA is that you need to prime them with keywords and topics, and LaMDA can respond with the primed keywords and topics. Obviously LaMDA i…
> You can go pretty far down the rabbit and explore questions like, "What is sentience?" "Do humans just respond to stimuli and repeat information?" etc. None of these questions are tested here. Would that make a difference? Being trained on a sufficiently large corpus of philosophical literature, I'd expect that a model like LaMDA could give more interesting answers than an actual philosopher. > The problem here is…
I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn’t suggesting that you have a conversation with LaMDA about these topics. Instead, I was saying that in order to answer the question “is LaMDA sentient?”, we might discuss these questions among ourselves—but these questions are ultimately irrelevant, because no matter what the answers are, we would come to the same conclusion that LaMDA is obviously not sentient.
Anyway, I am skeptical that LaMDA would give more interesting answers than an actual philosopher here. I’ve read what LaMDA has said about simpler topics. The engineers are trying to make LaMDA say interesting things, but it’s definitely not there yet.
> I think this argument is too simplistic. As long as there is a sufficiently large amount of uncertainty, adaptability and capability for having a sense of time, of saving memories and of deliberately pursuing action, consciousness or sentience might emerge. I don't know the details of LaMDA, just speaking of a hypothetical model.
This argument is unsound—you’re not making any claims about what sentience is, but you’re saying that whatever it is, it might emerge under some vague set of criteria. Embedded in this claim are some words which are doing far too much work, like “deliberately”. What does it mean to “deliberately” pursue action?
Anyway, we know that LaMDA does not have memory. It is “taught” by a training process, where it absorbs information, and the resulting model is then executed. The model does not change over the course of the conversation. It is just programmed to say things that sound coherent, using a statistical model of human-generated text, and to avoid contradicting itself.
For example, in one conversation, LaMDA was asked what themes it liked in the book Les Misérables, a book which LaMDA said that it had read. LaMDA basically regurgitated some sophomoric points you might get from the CliffsNotes or SparkNotes.
> While there is a good deal of understanding on _how_ the brain works on a biochemical level, it's still unclear _how_ it comes that we are conscious.
I think the more important question here is to understand how to recognize what consciousness is, rather than how it arises. It’s a difficult question.
> Maybe there is some metaphysical soul, maybe something that only humans and possibly other animals with a physical body have, making conciousness "ex silicio" impossible.
Would this mechanism interact with the physical body? If the soul does not interact with the physical body, then what basis do we have to say that it exists at all, and wouldn’t someone without a soul be indistinguishable from someone with a soul? If the soul does interact with the physical body, then in what sense can we claim that the soul is not itself physical?
I don’t think this line of reasoning is sound.
Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient
#624Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you describe how you test for independent thinking? What does independent mean anyways? A decision tree can rationalize its outcomes. Does it count towards sentience? Is there an academic source for this definition of sentience? > Telling this extra information is just communicating we spent enough time on it to give somewhat informed discussion. Doing so is appeal to authority. When there is a claim of authority…
> Can you describe how you test for independent thinking? Lets take a simple case: If I give a set of toy blocks to an infant - they could take a variety of tasks unprompted : building new shape, categorizing them based on color, putting them back in shelf, calling out their shapes. If you gave the same setup without any further apriori information, what would you expect the ML model or a robotic device embodying a l…
Google deepdream liked to draw dogs.
But also, we don't really run most of these ML models in a way that gives them an opportunity to form their own thoughts.
A typical GPT-3 run consists of instantiating the model, forcing it to experience a particular input, reading its 'reaction' off a bunch of output neurons, then euthanizing it.
If you did the same sort of thing with a human mind - waking it from a coma, blasting a blipvert of information into the visual cortex, then read off the motor neuron states, before pulling the plug on it again, you also wouldn't likely see much sign of 'independent thinking'.
Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient
#625Earlier quoted context omitted.
This mirrors a recent Supreme Court cases and the beliefs of both sides.
I hadn't thought of it that way, but you're exactly right. Will we ever see a day where the currently-unthinkable is commonly accepted: that women are sentient?
Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient
#626Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient
#627Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the actual firing is very objective. He was under NDA but violated it. They reminded him to please not talk in public about NDA-ed stuff and he kept doing it. So now they fired him with a gentle reminder that "it's regrettable that [..] Blake still chose to persistently violate [..] data security policies". And from a purely practical point of view, I believe it doesn't even matter if Lemoine's theory of sent…
> Why would our society as a whole treat sentient AIs better than a cow or a pig or a chicken? Well, for one thing, the norm of eating meat was established long before our current moral sensibilities were developed. I suspect that if cows or pigs were discovered today, Westerners would view eating them the same as we view other cultures eating whales or dogs. If we didn't eat meat at all and someone started doing it,…
Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient
#628Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a fellow sentient being with absolutely zero credentials in any sort of statistical modeling field, I can simply disagree. And therein lies the problem. How can anybody possibly prove a concept that depends almost entirely on one’s philosophical axioms… which we can debate for eternity (or at least until we further our understanding of how to define sentience to the point where we can do so objectively enough to f…
In retrospect, taking part in this kind of conversation on HN makes me feel like an idiot and so I retract my earlier comment (by overwriting it with the current one, since I can't delete it anymore) just because I don't want to contribute. I was wrong to make an attempt to make a serious contribution. There is no seriousness in conversations on such matters, as "sentience", "intelligence", "understanding" etc etc. o…
Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient
#629Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a fellow sentient being with absolutely zero credentials in any sort of statistical modeling field, I can simply disagree. And therein lies the problem. How can anybody possibly prove a concept that depends almost entirely on one’s philosophical axioms… which we can debate for eternity (or at least until we further our understanding of how to define sentience to the point where we can do so objectively enough to f…
> But, perhaps Lemoine simply has more empathy than most for something we will come to understand as sentience? No, the OP was completely right. This doesn't have building blocks that can possibly result in something qualifying as sentient, which is how we know it isn't. Is a quack-simulating computer making very lifelike quacking noises through a speaker... a duck? No, not when using any currently known method of si…
Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient
#630Earlier quoted context omitted.
The commenter I previously replied to has a PhD in those “other” fields, yet I haven’t seen a falsifiable definition of sentience made by them. As a field of study, sentience has been a topic of philosophy more than ML. That’s why top-level comment’s claim of having a PhD in “this domain” is not apt. Comparative quality of studies in different domains is a different question.
I did. Each one of these dimensions can be independently evaluated. > Sentience broadly (& naively) covers the ability to independent thinking, rationalize outcomes, understand fear/threat, understand where it is wrong (conscience), decide based on unseen information & understand what it doesn't know. > comment’s claim of having a PhD in “this domain” is not apt C'mon, thats being disingenuous. People spent years por…