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New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

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Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#161

Post by giantg2 »

cafard wrote: post #15

In one of his books, Gerald Weinberg said that his sister decided that it was time to give up divorce work when one of her clients (or the client's adversary) produced a list of goods for partition including a partly used container of dish soap under the sink. And my brother (a lawyer) told me of an attorney in the Mountain West who gave up divorce work as too stressful and went on to defending clients on capital cha…

"I hope that the new app will help divorcing couples to work through the divorce with less pain on both sides."

It won't. The people who fight over used dish soap and other petty things will continue to have issues.

The other part is people having an incorrect perception of what they are entitled to in a divorce. The app or a lawyer will be able to show them how wrong that perception is, but it won't dull the pain.

What would actually help is forming a prenup while both parties are happy, before vengeance, winning, or whatever emerges from the failed marriage.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#162

Post by giantg2 »

bko wrote: post #154
notch656a wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you understand child support payments, and thus the ability to be jailed and eventually charged with a felony and have your civil rights revoked, are tied to custody you'll understand part of the reason for the high stakes. If you end up with The only debtor's prison there is in the US is the one for people with <50% custody. Therefore if the other parent makes claims of abuse, it's imperative you have countercl…

> If you end up with I don't think thats how child support works in most states. Income shares model basically looks at the cost of raising a child in a particular jurisdiction then pro-rates that based on the parents income. For instance if the cost of child per month is 1k and the man earns 50k and the woman earns 100k (assuming woman has custody), the man would pay $333 a month (50 / 150 * 1k) https://www.thebalan…

That is how it initially gets set. It's a mess to have it reset though. If you lose my job and it takes 6 months to find another one, you have to keep paying. If the new job you find pays 75% of your old one, you still have to pay the old amount. You can petition the court to change it, but they are reluctant because some people take lower jobs to spite an ex. So instead they tend to set it based on "potential earning capacity".

"OH look, you made $100k this year and have a masters in IT. You should be able to earn that forever to pay child support and/or alimony." ...is basically how it goes.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#163

Post by giantg2 »

nicoburns wrote: post #155
jquery wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sort of rational thinking you are describing was completely absent from this process The unreasonably high stakes of “losing” a divorce case make it more like a no-holds barred cage match. I think America likes it this way because on some level it believes people must suffer for getting divorced.

That doesn't make any sense, because it being a "no-holds barred cage match" makes it more likely for one party to lose. Going in with a co-operative mindset (at least until the other party demonstrates they are not) should be win-win.

"Going in with a co-operative mindset (at least until the other party demonstrates they are not) should be win-win."

Completely agree. However, the underlying reason for many divorces is that they no long have the ability to cooperate or view things rationally.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#165

Post by vasco »

4ad wrote: post #146
vasco wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simpler option is to avoid marriage, greatly reducing the pressure on getting a divorce.

Then you have to pay more in taxes, having kids is more challenging, getting a mortgage becomes more expensive, immigration becomes impossible, and in some countries even travel becomes difficult.

We might be thinking of very different countries. Taxes are largely the same in most developed countries for couples or singles. Couples just have double the allowances. I'm not sure if you meant emigration, but I've lived in 3 countries while single, and I never heard this being easier married. And for sure I was never asked about my marital status for traveling.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#166

Post by giantg2 »

watwut wrote: post #114
notch656a wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accusations of abuse seem pretty rational to me in a custody battle. It's one of the best ways to get custody. Come up with some 'witnesses', trick the kid into testifying on your side. Have the attorney write up the sob story and blindside the other partner so they're left defenseless. Bonus points if you can get a restraining order in the process so custody is lost and continuity is maintained by continuing the cus…

it is actually not. Courts tend to punish those if they don't believe them - accusing partner of abuse is fairly often how you get less custody. Restraining orders are not easy to get either. It can take quite a lot of fight even in cases where actual stalking and threats of violence are going on.

"Going in with a co-operative mindset (at least until the other party demonstrates they are not) should be win-win."

Do you have a source for this? In my state, and many others, temporary protection from abuse orders against spouses are very easy to get just by saying the right things without any real evidence. Those stay in effect for a couple of weeks until a hearing. Then it's difficult to get them overturned unless you have physical proof because the course want to "err on the side of caution".

There are divorce lawyers who actually recommend filing false protection orders during divorce, for the very reasons stated by the previous commenter. It's well known amongst divorce attorneys that some in their profession do this. There is generally no punishment for those attorneys since you can't prove their involvement easily, nor for the false filer in many cases. After all, if your spouse is a felon (perjury) the courts will likely make you pay more in child support and alimony due to their limited earning potential.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#167

Post by giantg2 »

giantg2 wrote: post #162
bko wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you end up with I don't think thats how child support works in most states. Income shares model basically looks at the cost of raising a child in a particular jurisdiction then pro-rates that based on the parents income. For instance if the cost of child per month is 1k and the man earns 50k and the woman earns 100k (assuming woman has custody), the man would pay $333 a month (50 / 150 * 1k) https://www.thebalan…

That is how it initially gets set. It's a mess to have it reset though. If you lose my job and it takes 6 months to find another one, you have to keep paying. If the new job you find pays 75% of your old one, you still have to pay the old amount. You can petition the court to change it, but they are reluctant because some people take lower jobs to spite an ex. So instead they tend to set it based on "potential earnin…

I wanted to add also, that I wonder how this affects people who reasonably can't maintain that level. For example, if I were to get divorced it would crush me. I'm barely holding on at my job now (meh to bad reviews, I hate the place, I have no marketable skills to get hired anywhere else). I'm pretty sure the added stress of a divorce would lead to even further performance issues and being fired.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#169

Post by webmobdev »

benreesman wrote: post #96

This is slightly tangential, but I went through a no-prenup divorce. My intentions were good in not wanting a pre-nup, but I’ve changed my advice for a reason that surprises a lot of people. The reason I now advise folks to do a pre-nup is that when things are getting tense, everyone feeling insecure about their future actually increases the pressure and therefore the possibility of a divorce. Write your pre-nup howe…

Islamic laws on such matters are "surprisingly" progressive - as one of the few religions that recognises and accepts divorce, it is the only one I know that also insists on a prenup which specifies a lump sum a prospective bride is entitled to if the couple divorce in future. (This is negotiated between the families before the marriage). Note that in Islamic laws a muslim man has implied responsibility to care for his child, divorced or not and whoever has custody, and thus this is not a part of the prenup.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#170

Post by pid_0 »

notch656a wrote: post #87
pyuser583 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just watched friends divorce. They brought a lot of unnecessary suffering in themselves. They didn’t want an app. The number one thing to know about divorce with kids is that you lose control. They couldn’t stand that. The idea that the other person was 100% in charge of the kids. They began making extremely vague allegations of how the other parent does unspecified “bad things” that need to be “reported.” They eve…

Once you understand child support payments, and thus the ability to be jailed and eventually charged with a felony and have your civil rights revoked, are tied to custody you'll understand part of the reason for the high stakes. If you end up with The only debtor's prison there is in the US is the one for people with <50% custody. Therefore if the other parent makes claims of abuse, it's imperative you have countercl…

Well the simple way to get around this is to just not have kids. It’s easy! Just don’t have them and your life will be great. Happily married, 0 kids. 1 vasectomy.
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