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New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

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Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#131
post #110

Harry Browne had a technique for splitting up assets: One partner does the splitting. And the other partner gets to choose who gets which pile. (He also has a more elaborate one, where the partners do a virtual auction of all items among themselves, to account for cases where particular items are worth a lot more to one of them. I believe it’s in his book “How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World”).

There is a rather surprising amount of research about these kinds of approaches [1]. The various strategies and extensions are an interesting read.

^[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_cake-cutting

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see marriage as an equal partnership, so if there is a post-marriage 'severance' (beyond 50/50 asset disposition noted above) it would be bilateral (bread winner gives money to home-maker, home-maker gives maid/home-making service to bread winner). Seems cleanest at all just to cut ties though.

That's not what alimony is. The person staying at home has given up work, and cannot enter the workforce in the same way after marriage because they've not been in the workforce for years. They've given up earning potential for you to work and alimony (in theory) is to make sure you are regulating someone to poverty after they gave up that earning potential to be a homemaker without the benefits of employment (days o…

>That's not what alimony is.

Yes I'm aware. I was specifically asked to model it as 'severance.'

Most of the stay-at-home spouses I've met didn't give up work as a gift to their spouse, they did it as a gift to their children. Should children pay alimony to stay-at-home moms for the work opportunities their mother lost out on to take care of them?

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#133

This is slightly tangential, but I went through a no-prenup divorce. My intentions were good in not wanting a pre-nup, but I’ve changed my advice for a reason that surprises a lot of people. The reason I now advise folks to do a pre-nup is that when things are getting tense, everyone feeling insecure about their future actually increases the pressure and therefore the possibility of a divorce. Write your pre-nup howe…

Simpler option is to avoid marriage, greatly reducing the pressure on getting a divorce.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#134
My parents divorced recently.

Watching two of the most important people in my life gradually grow to resent each other to the point where they can't stand each other's presence was hard for me even as a thirty year old. I can't imagine what this experience would have done to me as a child, so I'm thankful that they stuck together for as long as they did.

In the end I was actually the one who suggested that they should separate, and I'm almost certain that if I didn't they'd still be together today. But in hindsight I'm glad I did, even though I felt immensely guilty about it at the time, and going through the whole separation process with them brought me to the brink of depression. They're a lot happier today than when they were together.

This whole experience has really left its scar on me. I shudder at even the thought of ever getting into any kind of romantic relationship myself, let alone marriage, due to fear of having to go through something like this myself, which statistically speaking is much more likely than I'm willing to risk. Even putting aside statistics, the truth is I see enough of both of them in myself that I can easily see myself playing either part in a similar situation down the line.

Thankfully I'm an introvert who actually enjoys being alone with my own thoughts, I have several close friends, money, hobbies, and had a fulfilling career up to this point and have recently embarked on a new journey bootstrapping my own business that deeply excites me. So I have little reasons to doubt that I can find plenty of enjoyment and fulfillment through other means in life.

I haven't told either of them though, because I know it will break their hearts. So far I've been evading the topic whenever it comes up, since at this stage in my life I have plenty of plausible excuses. I don't know how long I can keep this up though.

I know both of them want to see grandkids, and I still dread the day when I have to tell them it's probably never going to happen. The best I can do at that point is probably to make up some other reason why, instead of telling them the real reason: them.

I know they're not going to take it well regardless, and if we get into some heated argument I can totally see myself losing control and letting the real reason slip out, and that truly terrifies me to my core.

Thank you for reading up to this point. I'm not expecting anyone to hand me a solution, or for a solution to even exist. But just writing this out and putting it out there has been really cathartic for me, so I hope reading this might be helpful to someone else in some way.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#135

My parents divorced recently. Watching two of the most important people in my life gradually grow to resent each other to the point where they can't stand each other's presence was hard for me even as a thirty year old. I can't imagine what this experience would have done to me as a child, so I'm thankful that they stuck together for as long as they did. In the end I was actually the one who suggested that they shoul…

Hi! Thanks for opening up and sharing it with us.

I'm going to refrain myself from sharing my opinion (only you really know the full context of what you have gone through and how it makes you feel). But if I could champion one advice it would be this: please give psychotherapy a try. There are different types of psychotherapy and different kinds of professionals, but if you find one that clicks with you it could be life changing.

I know it's expensive (depending where you live) and it's more often than not a painful process. But for many people that stick with it, getting to go to a good psychologist/psychiatrist is like having your mind, feelings and ego dumped and analysed by a thorough debugger.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#136

This is slightly tangential, but I went through a no-prenup divorce. My intentions were good in not wanting a pre-nup, but I’ve changed my advice for a reason that surprises a lot of people. The reason I now advise folks to do a pre-nup is that when things are getting tense, everyone feeling insecure about their future actually increases the pressure and therefore the possibility of a divorce. Write your pre-nup howe…

I thought prenups were for couples where one or both parties are bringing assets into the divorce? Like, I'd consider one if I had any real assets or savings beyond my retirement accounts, but at the time I got married I didn't.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#137
post #52
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not personally (still happily) married. My cofounder went through a divorce. He is a divorce lawyer (and his wife at the time a lawyer too). They divided everything smoothly - sounded like it was quite clinical and unemotional from what he told me. Say if you brought assets into the relationship, a house, retirement fund fund, an inheritance. I’m sure you don’t want your ex-partner to get half of that. You’re…

> You’re entitled to keep a larger portion of it (as you get a credit for it). Doesn't this depend on if you have a pre-nup especially in states like CA? I got married super early and had to divide everything equally even though I earned much more than my spouse.

California is a Community Property state, New York is not.

The rules in Community Property states is marital assets have to be divided equally (50/50) in non-Community Property states they must only be divided up "equitably."

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#138

My parents divorced recently. Watching two of the most important people in my life gradually grow to resent each other to the point where they can't stand each other's presence was hard for me even as a thirty year old. I can't imagine what this experience would have done to me as a child, so I'm thankful that they stuck together for as long as they did. In the end I was actually the one who suggested that they shoul…

My father recently died and one of the strangest emotions that I felt after his death was not of sadness but of relief. He wasn't old or in pain. It wasn't relief for him. His death was an accident and I'm sad about that for his wife and everyone else including me.

The relief I felt was from expectations lifting. It's made me do a lot of thinking about how I live my life, and the implicit choices I've made due to expectations on me. Most of which I didn't really see as external forces for the longest time.

Whilst it's easy to say, but hard to do, I would suggest you just live life how you want, your parents are adults and are responsible for their emotions. Again it's easy to say this. Hard to do it.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just watched friends divorce. They brought a lot of unnecessary suffering in themselves. They didn’t want an app. The number one thing to know about divorce with kids is that you lose control. They couldn’t stand that. The idea that the other person was 100% in charge of the kids. They began making extremely vague allegations of how the other parent does unspecified “bad things” that need to be “reported.” They eve…

Once you understand child support payments, and thus the ability to be jailed and eventually charged with a felony and have your civil rights revoked, are tied to custody you'll understand part of the reason for the high stakes. If you end up with The only debtor's prison there is in the US is the one for people with <50% custody. Therefore if the other parent makes claims of abuse, it's imperative you have countercl…

This isn't how divorce or child support payments work. This is just a popular line of reasoning in Men's Rights circles. It's certainly possible but very unlikely.

I know lots of people that are divorced, with partial custody. Most like the situation better than when they were married.

Re: New divorce app to help couples split assets in New York without lawyers

#140
Divorce as a service. We already have marriage as a service in the form of “open relationships” one can argue. How about child bearing as a service? Perhaps in the form of surrogate or finding willing donors/carriers? And then child care as a service under the umbrella of adoption as a service, child rearing/daycare as a service (for example an app that allows each party to sign up when and how they would split the time spent with the children.

I think this model in western society has a long way to go in each of the above areas open for disruption some form or other.

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