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Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient

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Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient

#341
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Anything that's sentient should have the general intelligence to figure out addition. Make mistakes, sure, but at least understand the concept.

If you asked me to add two large numbers in my head and give my best guess I might not do any better than GPT3 does. And I think I could probably do better than the average person.

Sure, but in your head is a squishy organ, and in GPT3's "head" is a bit of silicon purpose-built to make such calculations.

Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient

#342

This is going to sound like I'm defending this guy which I'm not. It's also going to sound like a less technical point which I claim it isn't. I see some people chiming in here saying things like, "I've got a PhD. It's just statistics. Definitely not sentient." I recognize this sort of comment as basically saying, "There's nothing fundamentally different about how these things work that makes them somehow special." A…

I agree. Especially given the recent development of consiousness theory bestowing the likelihood of consiousness upon all animals and even perhaps inanimate objects. I.e., if you can answer the question “what would it be like to exist as...” a tree, a dog, a river, a GAN? Then the case may be made that existence as such a thing must involve consiousness. If consiousness is a product of (or a phenomena within) material reality, why not say computers and computer programs are conscious?

Perhaps the question here is whether it’s conscious in a similar way to the experince of human consciousness, and that would explain why the issue is contentious.

Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can science, whose subject matter is the external world, explain the internal world of sentience? Not only has it contributed nothing to this question, it was also never supposed to.

If only we had more than one person... Jokes aside: By studying how that "internal world" emerges from the anatomy of the brain(neuroscience, neuropharmacology). By querying that internal world in various interesting ways and studying the responses(psychology and behavioral biology). By studying the theory of computation and its physical constraints(computer science, mathematics, physics). And by studying language an…

This is just full of ontological and epistemological assumptions which have been mainstream for a few decades but are very controversial among philosophers. Philosophers don’t sit in bubbles—and use all the evidence they can find—and make great contributions to knowledge, even though what they do is not science. There’s a reason there are other subjects besides chemistry and physics.

Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, he's a self-proclaimed "Christian Mystic". https://cajundiscordian.medium.com/religious-discrimination-...

Which is weird because articles about him from when he was convicted describe him as pagan. He was sentenced to jail time for being in the armed forces and refusing to follow orders. Not "charge that hill, soldier" types of orders, or "pilot this drone and kill people" types of orders. He's certainly trying to sell that story, telling papers he "served" in Iraq. He was a mechanic. Working a desk job. He just stopped…

> How the hell did Google hire this clown? Even a dishonorable discharge is usually radioactive and this guy was not only dishonorably discharged, he served time.

False. He did serve time, but his discharge was bad conduct not dishonorable. Both BCD and DD usually come with time served, but DD is generally for offenses equivalent to civilian felonies, while BCD is for lesser offenses and carries less post-service consequences. While it's usually looked up on negatively by emoloyers, it's not as radioactive as a DD.

> It takes a really special kind of stupid to not figure out you're a conscientious objector until years after you've voluntarily signed up for service.

It's actually not that uncommon for service members to develop moral objections to military service only after deployment to a war zone, whether not in a combat capacity. Most, of course, will continue to serve anyway, because they have a fairly literal gun to their head, but it's a well-known pattern.

Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient

#345
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is if you take “sentience” to mean “the ability to feel,” which is what my dictionary just told me. I think this category really is the most basic differentiating one. Higher level stuff like self awareness all depend on it. The most basic difference between a computer and a human (or even a dog…) is, in my opinion, the ability to feel.

Dictionary definitions are of limited utility in philosophical discussions because they often make very broad assumptions. For example computers can certainly sense things, they can detect inputs and make decisions based on those inputs. What is the difference between feeling and sensing though? In this case by ‘feel’ we might implicitly assume various capabilities of the subject experiencing the feeling, like self a…

When we say a camera can see—or a computer can sense—we are using an anthropocentric metaphor.

Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient

#346
I think Blake started a very important conversation though: at what point should we consider a being sentient? Sure, DeepMind is not that smart. But neither are babies. Neither are hamsters. Yet we still have ethics when it comes to hamsters. Whats our ethics framework for how we treat AI?

Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is weird because articles about him from when he was convicted describe him as pagan. He was sentenced to jail time for being in the armed forces and refusing to follow orders. Not "charge that hill, soldier" types of orders, or "pilot this drone and kill people" types of orders. He's certainly trying to sell that story, telling papers he "served" in Iraq. He was a mechanic. Working a desk job. He just stopped…

Google, like many SV companies, has "banned the box". https://www.careeraddict.com/companies-hire-felons

> Google, like many SV companies, has "banned the box".

All SV (and California, more generally) employers with more than 5 employees “ban the box”, as a consequence of state law [0]. However, that only applies to not seeking criminal background information before making a conditional offer of employment, and making and individualized assessment after such an offer if there is a criminal history. It doesn't mean that relevant criminal convictions have no adverse impact on applicants.

[0] https://www.dfeh.ca.gov/fair-chance-act/

Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient

#348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is if you take “sentience” to mean “the ability to feel,” which is what my dictionary just told me. I think this category really is the most basic differentiating one. Higher level stuff like self awareness all depend on it. The most basic difference between a computer and a human (or even a dog…) is, in my opinion, the ability to feel.

>It is if you take “sentience” to mean “the ability to feel,” I don't like this definition much because "feel" is a fuzzy word. In this context it should be "feel" as in experience . I can build a machine that can sense heat and react to it, but I can't build one that can experience heat, or can I? You need to figure out what having the capability "to experience" means, and you'll be one step closer to defining senti…

‘So the meaning of sentience is subjective, so there can't be an objective definition acceptable to everyone and everything claiming to be sentient.‘

It feels like your begging the question here, I don’t think this follows from any of your arguments. Except for maybe where you state you believe sentience can’t be defined, which again, begs the question.

Though admittedly I don’t see much of a traditional argument — your conclusion is interesting, could you try supporting it?

Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient

#349
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is the logic you are going to go by, you need to consider a large portion of humanity non-sentient, because people can very often just decide to ignore questions.

People ignore questions for a variety of reasons, mainly they didn't hear it, they didn't understand it, or they aren't interested in answering. Unless and until this AI can communicate that sort of thing, it's safest to just assume it didn't ignore the question so much as it got its wires crossed and answered it wrongly.

[deleted]

Re: Google fires engineer who called its AI sentient

#350
post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that is the logic you are going to go by, you need to consider a large portion of humanity non-sentient, because people can very often just decide to ignore questions.

People ignore questions for a variety of reasons, mainly they didn't hear it, they didn't understand it, or they aren't interested in answering. Unless and until this AI can communicate that sort of thing, it's safest to just assume it didn't ignore the question so much as it got its wires crossed and answered it wrongly.

Is a child who cannot verbalize why they are ignoring a question considered non-sentient in your eyes? What about an adult that is a dumb mute and communicates via agitated screams? How about those barely clinging onto life support, whose brain activity can be meausred but for all intents and purposes never really have a chance of communicating other than faint electronic signals requiring expensive tools just to perceive? Still sentient?
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