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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#981

Post by theplumber »

alkonaut wrote: post #817
theplumber wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I know it’s likely the page works in Safari since iOS+Safari is a large customer group That until you find out some of the best web technologies are not working on safari(i.e indexeddb has been left unfixed for years on purpose by apple). I don't think people would like a safari only on desktop. Why would they want that on mobile?

I don’t really care about modern web tech I’m happy so long as web pages I visit work and lay out properly. (I don’t do web dev so I don’t need to professionally worry about the IE6-issues of having a large but slow moving target)

>> I don’t really care about modern web tech

Then you shouldn't have an opinion on modern web tech. Stick to what you care of.

>> I don’t do web dev so I don’t need to professionally worry about the IE6

Mobile safari is the IE6 of the modern web but as you don't do web dev you don't need to worry about it. Let the people who build for the web worry about the web.

>> I’m happy so long as web pages I visit work and lay out properly.

Simple text Webpages were workig on IE6 too so I can only assume that the transition from IE6 to Safari mobile was a smooth for you.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#982

Post by bgdam »

bagacrap wrote: post #715
bgdam wrote: post #585

I hope this means Apple is finally forced to start competing on features and not just on being able to block apps from their platform. Case in point: Push notifications for PWAs. If there is an alternate browser that supports this, that can be installed on iPhones, Safari is going to get this real quick.

that would be a great outcome! Sadly I think you overestimate the reach of PWAs.

Oh no, I know PWAs are not really all that capable. But there are an astounding number of apps which are apps only because they need push notifications. All of these could become PWAs.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#983

Post by alaric410 »

bkfh wrote: post #91

What I don't understand about messaging is, do only the large providers have to be interoperable among each other or can I create my own crappy messaging app and integrate with WhatsApp, Messenger, Signal et al.? Edit: typo

These regulations apply only to "Gatekeepers", meaning large companies with huge revenue and market power.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#984

Post by alaric410 »

formvoltron wrote: post #687

So does this help smaller players compete with the big guys? Seems like it might make it harder to compete due to all the new rules, but I haven't dug into it for the details.

These rules only apply to large organizations: "gatekeepers" that have massive global revenue and market power.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#985

Post by alaric410 »

kmlx wrote: post #655
stolsvik wrote: post #634

To all the folks that worry that Apple won't any longer be able to police Facebook: We can regulate that too. We can some really draconian rules wrt. what can and can not be collected etc. See, with a working governing body, the people wins. GDPR is great. USA don't have it, we do. Regulation works here. (Not always, not enough, it have unintended side effects and all that. But letting the big tech guys run the world…

> GDPR is great. not at all from my experience. it’s been extremely frustrating so far.

you work at facebook?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#986

Post by alaric410 »

golemotron wrote: post #162

At what point does it just become cheaper and more prudent to leave the EU market?

EU is one of the largest consumer markets there is. US Tech companies are probably regretting the day they left China. They won't make the same mistake again.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#987

Post by Siira »

motoxpro wrote: post #674
amelius wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the reason I like my iPhone is _because_ it’s a walled garden. Yeah, but now you can choose which walled garden you lock yourself up in, so it's even better.

Your walled garden gets better, mine (existing Apple ecosystem) gets worse. Less people -> less revenue -> less developers/features/customer support. Just want to highlight the no free lunch in this situation.

Forcing others to conform to your preferences so that you’ll enjoy a better UX is also known as fascism.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#988

Post by Siira »

nemothekid wrote: post #178
bloppe wrote: post #81

It blows my mind how many people have bought into Apple's position on this. No, Apple restricting your freedom does not afford you greater security. You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. If you're not confident in your ability to tell shady from legit, just stick to the App Store. Don't demand that Apple treat the rest of us like children just because that's how you would like to be treated.

> You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. For some reason every Linux user assumes everyone is as smart as they are and anyone who doesn't take the time to learn whatever esoteric config file to manage their DE is a child that can't tell left from right. Somehow the decade of directed scams and proliferation of malware and spyware isn't a problem and it's the developers "right" to be able to turn…

> You could just not buy from Apple.

The hardware scene is, in practice, quite monopolistic. This is especially true nowadays that Apple’s chips are vastly outcompeting others. I don’t know if this is because of some nefarious schemes or not, but even if it is a natural monopoly, it’s still a monopoly that might take years to be undone.

There is no reason to extend this hardware monopoly to software as well though. Apple can enjoy their great margin on their hardware, without also controlling everyone’s most intimate devices.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#989

Post by Siira »

vlozko wrote: post #202
bloppe wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is certainly a problem, I don't accept it as an argument for why we all have to be locked in the walled garden. Just add a system setting that controls the walls. Let people disable it if they want, and tell your mother-and-law to never ever disable it no matter what. If you're worried that they'll be tricked into disabling it, then they probably should not be in control of a bank account or anything else…

What happens when installing Facebook requires this setting to be disabled because it's only installable with their own App Store and rampant with privacy intrusions? > People already get scammed on iPhones all the time. I disagree with this assertion. It's certainly far less than those getting scammed on Mac/PC. > It's silly to think that anybody would be more vulnerable as a result of the DMA. There's a failure in…

> What happens when installing Facebook requires this setting to be disabled because it's only installable with their own App Store and rampant with privacy intrusions?

You can then add a regulation that all popular social apps need a web version that is fully functional. If the OS should support the necessary web APIs for a good app experience, people can choose that instead.

Considering the app permissions are still controllable via the OS, I don’t see how the app can become “intrusive” anyway. Just deny it the unnecessary permissions.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#990

Post by togs »

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

> Install any software So it's like a jailbreak. More software, less security.

> Make core messaging functionality interoperable. They lay out concrete examples like file transfer.

Encrypted messaging by someone not in the U.S.' jurisdiction. More privacy, more terrorism.

> Fines are up to 10% of global revenue for the first offense, and 20% for repeat offenses.

Ouch, that'll impose some discipline.

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