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The world is awful, the world is much better, the world can be much better

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Re: The world is awful, the world is much better, the world can be much better

#121

Post by perrygeo »

birksherty wrote: post #67

It's too selfish for humans to say world is better. Is the world only for humans? Does it belong to us only? Every other species is in terrible condition than before or they got extinction. And the better is not going to last. All the progress is because of extreme fossil fuel usage. The effect has started to show, to be honest it's going to get much worse in coming decades. It's like a person falling from a building…

Exactly. The article claims that the world is "better" because we have improved child mortality rates. They state (correctly) that the improvement is a consequence of alleviating poverty and improving material living conditions. But how did we DO that? Did we just put our heads down and chant "economic growth for everyone"?!

No. This growth was, and will continue to be, driven by industrial capital, mining, and fossil fuels. How are children born today going to raise grandchildren in the likely decline of those advantages? And there must be a discussion of the costs: pollution, climate change, resource depletion, species extinction, and myriad other social and environmental externalities.

Are things really "better" if more kids are born... into an unsustainable system? I think the younger generation today is ALREADY seeing the cracks, getting less from the system while paying higher costs to buy in. The energy-blind adherence to growth at all costs is a philosophy that does a disservice not just other species on earth, but future humans as well.

Re: The world is awful, the world is much better, the world can be much better

#122

Post by trasz »

robertlagrant wrote: post #72
trasz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, China has a very long history of famines. Twentieth century wasn't an outlier - although in the West it's been heavily publicised for propaganda reasons.

It was the worst famine - and, arguably, period - in the history of the world: - tens of millions died due to starvation from central planning issues (variously causing: a plague of locusts; Mao wanting to save face so refused foreign aid and maintained being a net exporter of food while people were starving; diverting people away from agriculture to metal production to meet the five year plan) - millions died from g…

It was the worst, but some of the ones before it weren't far behind - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines_in_China.

Also I find it curious that among the possible causes you forgot to mention World War 2. What would you say if someone omitted that when explaining fifties in Europe?

Re: The world is awful, the world is much better, the world can be much better

#123

Post by carapace »

29athrowaway wrote: post #119
carapace wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're on the same side you and I, you're "preaching to the choir." But I'm telling you, things are not as dark as they seem! We're learning and applying that learning. I know about topsoil degradation and erosion, but it's something we're learning to prevent. E.g. Gabe Brown's "Treating the Farm as an Ecosystem with Gabe Brown Part 1, The 5 Tenets of Soil Health" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUmIdq0D6-A He increas…

Well, this is clearly not the way corporations see it. The way corporation executives see it is: "I am going to get a nice bonus this quarter by boosting profits and whatever happens next is the next guy's problem. By the time anything becomes a problem I'll be partying in my superyacht." And this is the way many problems are treated as well.

That's (part of) the social "limiting factor" I'm talking about. It's starting to change though, and younger folks especially are taking the lead.

In re: corporations, I noticed that the first video you linked to is from CNBC and the second is from USA TODAY, both large corporations.

Re: The world is awful, the world is much better, the world can be much better

#124

Post by robertlagrant »

trasz wrote: post #122
robertlagrant wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was the worst famine - and, arguably, period - in the history of the world: - tens of millions died due to starvation from central planning issues (variously causing: a plague of locusts; Mao wanting to save face so refused foreign aid and maintained being a net exporter of food while people were starving; diverting people away from agriculture to metal production to meet the five year plan) - millions died from g…

It was the worst, but some of the ones before it weren't far behind - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines_in_China . Also I find it curious that among the possible causes you forgot to mention World War 2. What would you say if someone omitted that when explaining fifties in Europe?

I would think that's normal, because WW2 was 1939-1945, and even though it was waged there it didn't include events that would be considered a direct cause of millions starving in Europe. Which is why they didn't.

If you think WW2 was a major contributor to the Great Leap Forward deaths then just explain, rather than making oblique comments about how it's strange I didn't mention the thing that you're thinking of (but not mentioning).

Re: The world is awful, the world is much better, the world can be much better

#125

Post by 2snakes »

arbitrary_name wrote: post #105
epsteinisntdead wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't God take care of that himself?

Because he's a weird insecure psychopathic man-child. Don't give him enough gratitude? Eternal suffering. Break one of the weird rules he apparently really cares about (but then allows his most trusted disciples to break)? Eternal suffering. Succumb to the biological drivers that are inherently within us? Yep, more eternal suffering. I would say you can't make this stuff up, but...

Need to change your definition of God. Try: synonymous with logic and order in the universe and higher consciousness.

Re: The world is awful, the world is much better, the world can be much better

#126

Post by seibelj »

tsimionescu wrote: post #59
seibelj wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world went through an ice-age while humans were alive and struggling. The world may be warming because of humans, but we have the ability with technology to adapt.

No one is claiming humanity will go extinct. But during that ice age there were probably less than 100k living in the whole world. With technology and our current spread, we won't go so low, but a planet 3-4 degrees hotter is nowhere near able to sustain 7B people. Not to mention the terrible migration and resource wars we'll see as hundreds of millions if not billions of people have to leave places where temperature…

Couldn’t disagree harder on every single count. Humanity will adapt. We could sustain 10x population (70 billion) with the correct technology - the vast majority of land on earth is totally empty. There will be no resource wars and no migration. You are thinking delusionally.
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