Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#391

Post by kleer001 » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:43 PM UTC

hintymad wrote: post #384

namesbc wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars should have a regulator installed by the manufacturer to limit speed to 20mph on roads with people, and to 60mph on grade separated highways. This maximum would barely change your time to destination, but it would save thousands of lives per year. - 20mph: 90% survival rate - 30mph: 60% survival rate - 40mph: 20% survival rate https://www.betterstreetschicago.org/blog/chicago-speed-came...

What if occasionally you need to accelerate to a higher speed to avoid an accident?

Then you won't get there and the accident will be less fatal.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#392

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:43 PM UTC

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #303

jjcm wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally it's required, but I think their point is it should be required by hardware. Right now most new cars just beep at you, but you can still operate them.

We never pushed for it politically because it wouldn't change anything but it would piss people off. You can simply buckle the seatbelt with nobody in the seat, then sit down, and the requirement is defeated. On the other hand, a mandatory breathalyzer for ignition would be useful to prevent a lone driver from driving drunk. We already have them for people with DUIs, so we should make them mandatory for all cars.

[deleted]

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#393

Post by zamfi » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:43 PM UTC

flaque wrote: post #96

There’s an audio version of the same point here: https://podcast.strongtowns.org/e/the-drip-drip-drip-of-traf... A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. When a plane or train crashes, we stop everything and redesi…

Individual deaths can result in local change, perhaps mediated by liability concerns.

It's become the cynic's take to point out how quickly an unprotected pedestrian crossing gets a traffic light after a fatal accident there.

The media makes the thousand deaths at once -- and its response -- more salient than a thousand individual deaths.

There is a decent bit of literature around the role of the human and his/her purported error in a plane or train crash, compared with the culpability of a negligent operator (i.e., driving drunk) of a motor vehicle. Also, the FAA and NTSB have a very broad mandate when it comes to regulating planes and trains, while the NHTSA has traditionally not been willing to impinge on individual rights, perceived or otherwise, in the name of safety.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#394

Post by scrumbledober » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:44 PM UTC

rustybelt wrote: post #220

pbuzbee wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I've learned anything from watching "Idiots in Cars" videos on Reddit, it's that you can go from "driving normally" to "in an accident" much faster than you think. Most people have very little experience reacting to imminent accidents on the road. Overall that's a good thing, but it certainly seems naive to think that simply being an attentive driver is enough to keep you out of accidents.

Yes, but if half of all accidents involve idiots, not being an idiot is a legitimate way to reduce your risk of being in an accident. Meaning drivers do have some control over their level of risk behind the wheel.

half of all accidents involve an idiot, but there only has to be one idiot in a two car collision.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#395

Post by kfarr » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:44 PM UTC

hintymad wrote: post #384

namesbc wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars should have a regulator installed by the manufacturer to limit speed to 20mph on roads with people, and to 60mph on grade separated highways. This maximum would barely change your time to destination, but it would save thousands of lives per year. - 20mph: 90% survival rate - 30mph: 60% survival rate - 40mph: 20% survival rate https://www.betterstreetschicago.org/blog/chicago-speed-came...

What if occasionally you need to accelerate to a higher speed to avoid an accident?

What if that were a fecetious argument proposing a situation that does not happen in real life that people bring up when speed governors are discussed?

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#396

Post by wizofaus » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:45 PM UTC

anthonypasq wrote: post #370

lovich wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have a right to be stupid, even if it results in your death. Do you? I’ve not seen hide nor hair of that right defined anywhere.

jumping off mountains is legal

Except when there are sufficient cases of people seriously injuring or killing themselves, then the area is typically fenced off/given restricted access.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#397

Post by redox99 » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:45 PM UTC

goodpoint wrote: post #120

digdugdirk wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find many of the issues brought up about public transit being unsafe revolve around the people you might encounter on public transit (drug users, homeless, mental illness, etc.) and the waiting around/walking to public transit stops (muggings, thefts, etc.) I've never had any issues myself, but have absolutely been exposed to those issues while taking transit. I've also witnessed those issues increase during/post l…

Try visiting Japan or South Korea or even central Europe.

I'm not sure what you're trying to point out. I've only been to Japan out of those, and public transport might be fast and clean, but it is much less comfortable and a much worse experience than driving a nice car.

Unless I'm in a hurry I rather have a comfortable private ride, than a less comfortable quick ride packed around strangers.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#398

Post by unsupp0rted » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:45 PM UTC

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #382

namesbc wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars should have a regulator installed by the manufacturer to limit speed to 20mph on roads with people, and to 60mph on grade separated highways. This maximum would barely change your time to destination, but it would save thousands of lives per year. - 20mph: 90% survival rate - 30mph: 60% survival rate - 40mph: 20% survival rate https://www.betterstreetschicago.org/blog/chicago-speed-came...

>This maximum would barely change your time to destination Yes it would. The drive from LA to San Francisco is about 300 miles on Interstate 5. Much of this highway is completely straight, with excellent visibility through an unpopulated desert. When sparsely trafficked (as it is much of the time), it is safe to drive 80+ MPH on I5 for hours at a time. At 80 MPH, this is a 3 hour 45 minute drive. At your proposed 60…

People shouldn't really drive 300 miles in individual private vehicles.

Apart from the chance of accidentally killing oneself or others, it's hugely inefficient.

If we changed an interstate full of cars to high speed trains (or hyperloop or whatever) which depart every half hour, it'd be safer, cheaper, cleaner... you name it.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#399

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:45 PM UTC

CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #283

WalterBright wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not wearing a seatbelt is an individual choice, and should not be a crime. P.S. Growing up, my dad had the dealer install seatbelts in the family wagon before he picked it up. We never moved an inch unless everyone was buckled up. Nobody else, and I mean nobody else, had seatbelts in their car at the time. P.P.S. Seatbelts also saved my life.

Its a choice that effects others. When you get ejected from the crash and hit someone else's car. When we have to shut down the interstate north and south bound for 3 hours to do a full reconstruction. When we have to do a death notification. Dealing with a dead body isnt a big deal. Your mind kinda puts it in the pile of "just evidence". Working the fatality is easy. The hard part is the death notification. Having t…

I don't envy your job. I'm sure it is tough. I respect you for taking on such a difficult task.

However, people still have a right to be stupid with their own life. It's not nonsense.

For example, Wilbur and Orville Wright were quite aware that they stood a high chance of dying in their airplane experiments. Neil Armstrong figured that he had a 1:3 (or something like that) chance of dying going to the moon. The people who free climb have a very high death rate.

They all have the right to decide for themselves what is worth doing and what isn't. If you've got family depending on you, you should think about them before taking stupid risks. It's your right and your responsibility and your decision.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#400

Post by bee_rider » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:45 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #333

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Patrol officer I knew said once "I never unbuckled a dead man"

It's a nice zinger, but obviously false.

There were around 42k traffic deaths in 2021 (a 16 year high apparently) and around 610k patrol officers

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/early-estimate-2021-tra...

https://www.statista.com/statistics/751015/number-of-police-...

So, assuming every fatality is wearing a seat belt and is handled by a cop ('optimistic' assumption for it to be 'obviously false'), it would still be around a 7% chance per year for a cop to "unbuckle a dead man." So this isn't obviously false, depending on the career length. For example, after 10 years, assuming independent probability of such an encounter per year, .93^10 ~= .48.