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I regret my website redesign

mtlynch.io

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Re: I regret my website redesign

#441

Post by mtlynch »

level wrote: post #172

I recently left a boutique agency of 5 years and I can definitely resonate with this one. Our agency aimed to catch big fish, and we did, but since they are hard to land we'd pick up small jobs in the meantime, just like the project that you're describing here. In my perspective, this isn't someone deliberately ripping you off. I imagine they intended to ship at the cost they quoted, but the team didn't adjust their…

Interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing!

>All the variations of the logo and design mocks are clearly overkill for a $15k project. The design team had time to fill and wanted to provide lots of options for you to pick from, as they typically would on a larger project. Those variations are an expectation for $100k clients, and you got the $100k customer treatment, but unfortunately not at a discount.

Oh, huh.

I was thinking about this as I did the writeup. It didn't feel at the time that they were spending excessive time on the logo variations, but I went back to the notes I took on our first call and realized how out of line all that early work now feels relative to their 30-40 hour initial estimate of the rebrand.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#442

Post by rexreed »

mtlynch wrote: post #402
kypro wrote: post #119

I don't want to rub salt in the wounds here, but that design is extremely mediocre. The primary mistake here imo was to think you needed professional web design in the first place. You didn't. Professional web design is best suited to companies with a strong brand or websites with complicated UX/UI that needs wireframing. You're just a small business selling KVMs D2C. That doesn't need anything fancy. There are some…

Thanks for reading! > There are some really good (free) AI logo generators out there you can use to generate logos very similar (perhaps even better) than this. In recent years I've used them almost exclusively to generate some initial logo ideas then either made minor alterations myself (where needed), or paid someone a little to do it for me. I've tried AI logo generators and didn't like the results. Last time I tr…

Why not Fiverrs?

Re: I regret my website redesign

#443

Post by mtlynch »

knubie wrote: post #427
mtlynch wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for reading! > There are some really good (free) AI logo generators out there you can use to generate logos very similar (perhaps even better) than this. In recent years I've used them almost exclusively to generate some initial logo ideas then either made minor alterations myself (where needed), or paid someone a little to do it for me. I've tried AI logo generators and didn't like the results. Last time I tr…

I'll rub a little aloe in that wound. I actually like the redesign. The illustrations are great, and overall it's a big improvement over the original. Worth the price? Perhaps not, but at least you have a better website now, and more experience dealing with agencies.

Thanks for the aloe! Yeah, that's how I feel as well.

I was expecting people to not like the new design but it's been surprising to hear how many people prefer the old design and logo. I think the new one is way better, and it's not even close. Not perfect, but certainly an improvement.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#444

Post by mtlynch »

rexreed wrote: post #442
mtlynch wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for reading! > There are some really good (free) AI logo generators out there you can use to generate logos very similar (perhaps even better) than this. In recent years I've used them almost exclusively to generate some initial logo ideas then either made minor alterations myself (where needed), or paid someone a little to do it for me. I've tried AI logo generators and didn't like the results. Last time I tr…

Why not Fiverrs?

I talk about this at the bottom: https://mtlynch.io/tinypilot-redesign/#why-didnt-you-just-fi...

Re: I regret my website redesign

#445

Post by rexreed »

mtlynch wrote: post #444
rexreed wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not Fiverrs?

I talk about this at the bottom: https://mtlynch.io/tinypilot-redesign/#why-didnt-you-just-fi...

I see cheap $4/hr developers, but I don't see anything specific about Fiverrs. Are you lumping them in together?

Re: I regret my website redesign

#447

Post by kennydude »

Even from a general customer serivce prespective, this sucks massively. Working in web development myself, everything is agreed upon before work to start - not with the agency deciding to include additional items.

It's incredibly shameful from this agency - they really owe a massive apology and should refund for the non-requested parts tbh.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#449

Post by z3t4 »

WorldMaker wrote: post #373
latortuga wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was ready to fire the agency the moment the author mentioned they were going off script and building whatever they wanted. This was a huge, blinking red flag for me. Why would you keep paying someone when they're doing work you didn't ask for, doing work that doesn't align with your goals, and ignoring what you say?

That seems to be the point where sunk cost fallacy strikes hard in the post to me. They had paid $X for "80% of the first milestone of work" and that sunk cost locks them in to everything else that happens. They seemed too fearful from that point onward that if they fired the agency and brought in a new agency or freelancer that they would start from square 1 and do all of the previous work (and spend) over again. Th…

The sunk cost fallacy is perhaps the most useful thing you learn in business school. eg. Do I want to pay $9,600 to get the job finished. What would it cost if I hired someone else to finish it ?

The same thing if you are going to a concert and lost your tickets, do you want to pay $200 to go to the concert (not taking into account that you've already lost $100, you could have lost that $100 on whatever) eg. you are paying 200, not 200+100.

Re: I regret my website redesign

#450

Post by unleashit »

As a designer-turned-developer, I find this topic and the comments amusing. I don't think there's much question that the agency in question treated the client terribly, and should have been fired post haste and early.

That said, you couldn't pay me enough to get involved with design again in any way shape or form. The reason, as reflected by the comments and experience, is greatly increased customer expectations of the design process, number of expected mockups/choices, iterations, content changes, scope creep, etc. Even for small projects like the OPs, it's has ballooned to such an extent that many times it's practically impossible to know if something is going to take weeks or even years.

10 years ago when I last did design, if this author approached me I'm confident that I could have delivered a significantly better end result in far less time and at a cost similar to the original estimate. However, I would have be up front at the start (and in the contract) about maximum iterations and time spent before triggering the hourly rate. This most of the time anyway, worked pretty well to set the client's expectation to what I needed to match their estimate. I do understand that this wouldn't be palatable to most businesses anymore because it means having to be more trusting and flexible about the end result. Yet in almost all cases, I was able to please the companies I worked with and do it mostly on time/budget. Indeed, they sometimes had to compromise a bit but the end result as measured by revenue and traffic was almost never disappointing to them.

I'm a big believer of listening carefully and delivering not what "I" want, but what my customer wants. That said, I also believe business should be open to the advice of design (and other) professionals, because that is what they spend all their time doing. If you're fighting stuff like color/font/design choices with your designer to the extent that you have to go through a million changes, you've either picked the wrong designer or you might also consider the possibility that you might not be effectively communicating your opinions and/or that they might not make sense.

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