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Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

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Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#371

Post by renlo »

mlyle wrote: post #321
JoshuaDavid wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could simultaneously be true that including a good salary range increases the number of applicants who are good fits for the role, and also true that including a good salary range decreases the average quality of candidates. One way you might see that effect is if both candidates who are good fits for the role and candidates who are bad fits for the role apply more often when a high salary is posted, but the numbe…

Another, simpler option: When you put a range of $100-120k, the very high quality candidate who won't accept an offer less than $150k doesn't apply. Or, put another way: > It could simultaneously be true that including a good salary range increases the number of applicants who are good fits for the role, and also true that including a good salary range decreases the average quality of candidates. Part of "good fit" c…

I think parent understands your point, but, it's implied that the salaries were high, so your example doesn't fit.

> Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit

Your example covers the case of "mid-range salary", overqualified applicant doesn't want the job, but wasn't going to get hired anyways because overqualified. Parent's example covers "very high salary", underqualified applicant wants the job just because the number is high. Given the "salary offerings are very aggressive", then why would we be talking about a "mid-range salary" case.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#373

Post by d4mi3n »

germandiago wrote: post #304
nibbleshifter wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. I'm paid to work 40h/week. Am I going to be expected to be working more than that? If so, I'll pass. If there's occasional overtime, sure, fine. But do I get paid extra for it? Does it get banked into extra PTO? And so on, stuff I ask prospective employers in the first conversation.

This is a difficult topic. We evolved to the 40h/week mentality. This is a big luck for us. I think things should be more based on goals than on time itself, honestly. What I mean is: if you work 40h but you do not deliver anything, how is that good compared to someone that in 32 delivers more? We have to put ourselves on the side of the employer also, even if some people hate them.

This is a management problem, not an employee problem. Figuring out if I can be outperformed by someone working less hours than me is irrelevant to my relationship to my employer. I'd go further to say that it's irrelevant barring frequency of the event having an impact on the broader job market. For any team, you will have a range of performance. For any individual, you will have different work styles.

This is normal. This is OK.

Asking an employee make this a consideration when negotiating with an employer is a dereliction of duty on behalf of the hiring manager and difficult for the candidate to judge due to information asymmetry. If you're building a team, you should know what kind of talent fits on it and make an offer on those merits. That's what being a hiring manager entails.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#375

Post by mynameishere »

twawaaay wrote: post #282

In decades of interviewing and hiring developers I have not seen an actual difference coming from posting salary ranges. I tried many different versions of this. As a candidate, I do not apply to a thousand different places. I find 3-4 where I would want to work and I do my research before I even apply. I know what they can pay me before I get to talk to them. As an interviewer I try to stay away from candidates that…

No post body was provided.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#376

Post by bastardoperator »

nibbleshifter wrote: post #258
ipaddr wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting that good work life balance issue settled usually takes 2 or 3 rounds to pry some useful info out.

Not really. I'm paid to work 40h/week. Am I going to be expected to be working more than that? If so, I'll pass. If there's occasional overtime, sure, fine. But do I get paid extra for it? Does it get banked into extra PTO? And so on, stuff I ask prospective employers in the first conversation.

This isn't how salaried position work though, not in the US anyways. You will get paid X if you work 10 hours a week or X if you work 50 hours a week. There is no difference in pay. Would you be open to losing pay? Do you want to be accountable for every single hour of work you do? Most don't.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#378

Post by dennis_jeeves1 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #313
dotdi wrote: post #256

More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upf…

This is exactly why. Interviewing can easily eat up 2-3 days of your life. You only get 15-30 days of vacation per year. Theoretically, you are working to have free time. This is maybe 1/5th of your free time per year. You can't waste this on unknowns. Give me the salary up front or p#$$ off.

>Give me the salary up front or p#$$ off.

Good to see someone do this. I do this.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#379

Post by OJFord »

Also, to recruiters: non-desperate candidates are not interested in your semi-coherent description of what 'the stack includes' if you don't mention the company name.

(Maybe if it's something really niche? But I receive things like 'you seem like a great fit for this python position'.. yeah, maybe, but that could be anywhere. I'm not interested 'because python'.)

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#380

Post by knodi123 »

lostlogin wrote: post #336
skeeter2020 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think this is true, and might even be willing to go through the motions for the money, but if I expect you to truly love what you do and look for ways to improve the quality and throughput of your manure handling operations the money is not a good indicator or motivator.

> You think this is true, and might even be willing to go through the motions A good pun. The money stops being enough after a surprisingly short time. It would be interesting to see how long people could stomach terrible work for great pay.

wouldn't it have to be "go through the movements" to count as a pun on bowel movements? Or is there another sense I'm missing?
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