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Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

strongtowns.org

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Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#151

Post by tristor »

djmips wrote: post #101
tristor wrote: post #57

The primary reason why I ignore car crashes is because I ensure that I do the following things, all of which greatly reduce my risk factor compared to the average: 1. I always drive attentively with both hands on the steering wheel. 2. I completed on-track driving instruction in a race car, multiple times, and also took training in evasive driving maneuvers. 3. I constantly maintain situational awareness of what's go…

Even just #4 (the tire part) applied / enforced would help tremendously.

Because I do a lot of the maintenance on my own vehicles, I have many acquaintances who ask me car advice, and I always tell people to buy the best tires they can afford, as it's those 4 tires and wheels that are all that's holding your car to the ground. I have recently moved cross-country, but the previous city I lived in it was incredibly commonplace to see vehicles on the highway doing 80+ MPH with horribly visibly bald tires, or in some cases people rolling on 4 spares (which are only certified to 55MPH).

The average driver in the US has a very flippant attitude towards maintenance and towards tires in particularly. Yet, tires are one of the most important if not most important safety items on your vehicle.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#152

Post by bostonpete »

googlryas wrote: post #137
flaque wrote: post #96

There’s an audio version of the same point here: https://podcast.strongtowns.org/e/the-drip-drip-drip-of-traf... A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. When a plane or train crashes, we stop everything and redesi…

It makes sense because, for most of America, we have designed our environment to be heavily dependent on the possibilities cars open up for us. It is not the same with air or train travel. Those are useful, but not necessary for almost all people.

Makes sense, but that still doesn't explain why we ignore tens of thousands of auto deaths per year but talk about one Uber ATG death for 5 years...

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#153

Post by kelnos »

digdugdirk wrote: post #86
woodruffw wrote: post #2

This is a really excellent read, and neatly summarizes a thought that flashes through the back of my mind whenever someone tells me that public transit is unsafe. If over 100 people died each day on public transit, we'd have banned it by now. But we accept it in our automotive culture, while simultaneously handwringing over every incident that happens on public transit.

I find many of the issues brought up about public transit being unsafe revolve around the people you might encounter on public transit (drug users, homeless, mental illness, etc.) and the waiting around/walking to public transit stops (muggings, thefts, etc.) I've never had any issues myself, but have absolutely been exposed to those issues while taking transit. I've also witnessed those issues increase during/post l…

Yeah, this is a good point. I don't think I've ever heard anyone express fear when getting on an SF Muni bus or train that they're going to be injured or killed in a crash. The only safety-related complaints are exactly what you said: drug users and people with mental illnesses on the bus, or sketchy characters hanging around transit stops. Years ago, my partner witnessed someone walk right by her, inches away from her, stop a few feet away, and suddenly punch someone in the face, right out of the blue. I would be much more afraid of that kind of thing happening to me than anything else.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#154

Post by Apreche »

mywittyname wrote: post #105

"We" don't ignore them. Every major government has a body dedicated entirely to automobile safety. In the USA, this is NHSTA - National Highway Safety & Transportation Administration. They maintain an information system of traffic fatality statistics in the USA, called FARS (fatality analysis reporting system). This system is used to determine new safety devices and standards for vehicles and to test their effectiven…

You are correct that they are powerful, but they wield that power rarely.

Imagine if Superman was real. There he is standing on a street corner. Vastly powerful. Invincible to everything except kryptonite. Cape flowing majestically. Someone robs a bank right there across the street. He sees it. He hears it. And he stands there and watches, doing nothing. That's the NHSTA.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#155

Post by CodeAndCuffs »

I was a cop for several years. I worked hundreds of crashes, and a few fatalities.

If cars had a max speed limit of 85 mph, and required the seatbelt to be engaged to work, we'd cut our fatality rate in half.

Most nations' DUI laws consider a 0.05 BAC as illegal. In most US states 0.08 is presumed under the influence, 0.06 - 0.079 is considered no presumption either way, and under .06 is considered not under the influence. My alcohol tolerance is fairly average, but after some off the cuff experiments with whiskey and a preliminary breathalyzer, I shouldn't drive at a .055. My wife shouldn't drive at a .03

Something like 80% of fatal crashes involve either alcohol, no seatbelt, or excessive speed, but not wearing a seatbelt is like a 50 dollar ticket, and a secondary offense, in many jurisdictions.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#156

Post by mywittyname »

epistasis wrote: post #130
mywittyname wrote: post #105

"We" don't ignore them. Every major government has a body dedicated entirely to automobile safety. In the USA, this is NHSTA - National Highway Safety & Transportation Administration. They maintain an information system of traffic fatality statistics in the USA, called FARS (fatality analysis reporting system). This system is used to determine new safety devices and standards for vehicles and to test their effectiven…

I can't agree with your assessment at all. Deaths are rising, yet what changes are happening? And in particular the NHSTA doesn't give a damn about those outside of the car. The very greatest threat to the life of my children is cars. It would be easy, trivial almost, to fix this by legalizing building for houses and businesses that don't allow cars, but are served only by public transit. Yet this very simple, very d…

> Deaths are rising, yet what changes are happening?

https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/early-estimate-2021-tra...

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#157

Post by kieselguhr_kid »

treeman79 wrote: post #143
kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we really need is a holistic approach to a lot of these issues. Ending the violent prohibition of drugs, building and providing housing for the homeless, better and more accessible mental health programs, denser cities, better transit, etc. We don't have a politics in the US that fully articulates the dynamic interconnectivity of all the issues and aggressively pushes for a set of solutions.

Doesn’t San Fransisco do all of those? They spend a huge amount on it anyway. And being one the dirtiest cities possible.

No city can adequately fund these programs, and San Francisco certainly doesn't build housing for the homeless, have an enlightened drugs policy or have adequate mental health care. San Francisco and other coastal cities mainly differentiate their policies by treating the homeless populations there with malignant neglect instead of outright hostility, which leads to the phenomenon you see where 10-12 cities bear the brunt of a national homelessness crisis. Because San Francisco is one of them, you also see a bunch of entitled tech bros whining about how they have to see a homeless person sometimes on HN.

I will admit that, by American standards, SF has pretty good public transit though.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#158

Post by [deleted] »

kieselguhr_kid wrote: post #115
digdugdirk wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find many of the issues brought up about public transit being unsafe revolve around the people you might encounter on public transit (drug users, homeless, mental illness, etc.) and the waiting around/walking to public transit stops (muggings, thefts, etc.) I've never had any issues myself, but have absolutely been exposed to those issues while taking transit. I've also witnessed those issues increase during/post l…

What we really need is a holistic approach to a lot of these issues. Ending the violent prohibition of drugs, building and providing housing for the homeless, better and more accessible mental health programs, denser cities, better transit, etc. We don't have a politics in the US that fully articulates the dynamic interconnectivity of all the issues and aggressively pushes for a set of solutions.

[deleted]

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#159

Post by JoeAltmaier »

CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #155

I was a cop for several years. I worked hundreds of crashes, and a few fatalities. If cars had a max speed limit of 85 mph, and required the seatbelt to be engaged to work, we'd cut our fatality rate in half. Most nations' DUI laws consider a 0.05 BAC as illegal. In most US states 0.08 is presumed under the influence, 0.06 - 0.079 is considered no presumption either way, and under .06 is considered not under the infl…

A Patrol officer I knew said once "I never unbuckled a dead man"

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#160

Post by multiplegeorges »

giantg2 wrote: post #7

The engineering side is good to look at. We should also be looking at the education/credentialing side too. Many incidents are drivers making poor choices, not knowing the laws, or not understanding vehicle dynamics. Stricter licensing would be a good way to reduce incidents regardless of the redesigns. Arguably, that would be the fastest and cheapest route to effective change.

Yeah, every driver should have to re-do a driving test every 5 years to maintain a license and if they are convicted of a moving violation they should have to re-do the test within a year of that violation, in addition to the 5 year test.

Driving is a privilege, not a right.

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