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Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

strongtowns.org

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Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#141
post #112
post #57

The primary reason why I ignore car crashes is because I ensure that I do the following things, all of which greatly reduce my risk factor compared to the average: 1. I always drive attentively with both hands on the steering wheel. 2. I completed on-track driving instruction in a race car, multiple times, and also took training in evasive driving maneuvers. 3. I constantly maintain situational awareness of what's go…

40 years old eh? Perhaps it's time to start considering retiring from driving to maintain your high standard.

Agreed, actually. I fully intend to stop driving after I retire. It's actually a conversation I've had a few times with my parents, and I'm heavily encouraging them to give up driving. I wish we had better licensing standards in the US at every level and that we forced aged-based retesting on older drivers. I know that my mother (72) for instance definitely should not be driving, but still does, although mostly my father (65) does the driving. I'd prefer if neither of them did.

The flip side (and something I think Strong Towns would fully agree with me on) is that most American cities are constructed for cars and not for people, which means stricter licensing standards and being more careful about licensing of older drivers is somewhat of a non-starter if it means people have no feasible way to get to the store or the doctor (or for those below retirement age, to work).

I also realize that my position is heavily privileged, both by my ability to afford newer cars and impeccable maintenance, my time and affordability of training, and that I will likely retire early enough in age to not ever become a road hazard due to my age. It is not lost on me that this cannot apply to most other people, and I recognize I'm an outlier in this way. I heavily support policies to increase public transit options, and I hope that self driving cars become a reality in my lifetime. We cannot build society's policies based on our highest or lowest outliers, but need to consider the reality of the normal person's experience.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#142
post #83
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While a careful, attentive driver in a well-maintained vehicle certainly isn’t immune, their risk is much lower than someone who drives tired, drunk, or high in a car with bald tires and bad brakes. You could have just stopped at "control". That's the fundamental dynamic by which we can explain this differential public sentiment--a sense of control or lack thereof, independent of whether that control actually exist…

If only we could take this further. What’s more in “control” than driving? Walking and riding a bike. That’s ultimate control.

This is why, when I have to visit a city, I much prefer to park my car at the first convenient opportunity and walk. Having a car is pretty straightforward and definitely a must in the rural areas where I live (sadly, public transit is effectively nonexistent), but driving a car in a city is difficult and often terrifying, specifically because of the limited control (you're stuck going forward at a particular speed, and if you realize too late that the GPS/map/printed out directions/copilot navigator was indicating that street to turn on, you just have to keep going and hope that you can loop back around somehow without losing too much time...or you risk permanent/exorbitantly expensive damage to your car, someone else's car, and/or one or more humans).

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find many of the issues brought up about public transit being unsafe revolve around the people you might encounter on public transit (drug users, homeless, mental illness, etc.) and the waiting around/walking to public transit stops (muggings, thefts, etc.) I've never had any issues myself, but have absolutely been exposed to those issues while taking transit. I've also witnessed those issues increase during/post l…

What we really need is a holistic approach to a lot of these issues. Ending the violent prohibition of drugs, building and providing housing for the homeless, better and more accessible mental health programs, denser cities, better transit, etc. We don't have a politics in the US that fully articulates the dynamic interconnectivity of all the issues and aggressively pushes for a set of solutions.

Doesn’t San Fransisco do all of those? They spend a huge amount on it anyway. And being one the dirtiest cities possible.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#144
post #37
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is control . While a careful, attentive driver in a well-maintained vehicle certainly isn’t immune, their risk is much lower than someone who drives tired, drunk, or high in a car with bald tires and bad brakes.

You say control, I say guilt . Society loves to attribute systemic problems to individual wickedness, because it empowers the judgemental elements while requiring no actual effort. As you say, careful drivers are not immune. But as long as someone, anyone, involved in the accident can be condemned as sinful (in many cases the sin of being tired from overworking forced on them by societal pressures), it can be explain…

> But as long as someone, anyone, involved in the accident can be condemned as sinful (in many cases the sin of being tired from overworking forced on them by societal pressures), it can be explained away.

And indeed if we look at railway safety this is exactly what we saw. Originally, railway companies would say well, yes two passenger trains collided, killing a hundred people, but conveniently for us both drivers died in the collision so we'll blame them. The problem wasn't us, the railway company, who are great, it's those awful drivers, who fortunately are now dead so no need to investigate further. In fact, since there's no body to examine we can confidently declare that one of the drivers was drunk. Which explains why we've told his widow that she won't be receiving one penny from the death-in-service fund.

Eventually (this kept happening, because of course it did) coroners weren't talking this bullshit, and they said it seems like the problem isn't these lone drivers who are conveniently dead, it's the company hiring them. If the drivers aren't good enough, the company should get better drivers. If instead the problem is elsewhere (e.g. maybe it'd be a good idea to invent signals so that you know if a train just around the corner has broken down so that your express doesn't hurtle into it at full speed...) that's something for the railway company too. This didn't magically fix things overnight, but it did push back against the useless "blame the driver" narrative.

Modern safety agencies, focused on a blameless "Learn from the past, prevent future accidents" model have improved things considerably, but that did not happen automatically, somebody had to call the corporate entities on their bullshit. Maybe we should call individual private car owners on their bullshit too.

One trend I don't like is people who resist the word "accident". It's an accident unless you think it was done on purpose. Accident prevention is a thing. We can, and should, prevent accidents.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#145
post #58

My favorite: Number of people die from cancer each year is same as number of people died in World War II each year. How much resources did we allocated to each? As former chimps, our ability grasp probability and statistics is astonishingly limited.

It's not a fair comparison, because world population in 1940 was just 2.3 billion. So, in relative terms, WW2 killed almost four times as many people per year as cancer does.

Not to mention that the goal of WW2 spending wasn't to improve some abstract death prevention statistics, it was actually to prevent madmen from taking over the whole world and turning it into totalitarian hell.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#146

My kid sister died in a car accident two weeks ago. Now I find the numbers unfathomable. How can 40,000 families be suffering like this, every year?

Because even 40,000 people is only a lot relatively. It is just 0.012% of the American population and 0.00051% of the world population.

No even on that scale it is a lot of harm when you consider it as it actually is. As the person you're responding to notes, a preventable death touches many more than just the individual killed.

You can argue that this cost is worth bearing, but you can't dismiss it as "just" .01% or whatever. Over a period of years this is almost every family touched by unnecessary death: people growing up without a parent, careers ended because of disability, spiraling into depression or addiction because of losing a child, all the second and third order effects of grief and loss and suffering.

Again, maybe it's worth it. Make a point for why it is though, if you find it to be. Pointing at the numbers isn't enough.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#147
post #96

There’s an audio version of the same point here: https://podcast.strongtowns.org/e/the-drip-drip-drip-of-traf... A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. When a plane or train crashes, we stop everything and redesi…

The same pattern plays out all over the place. Diffuse deaths are just background noise to life where singular events breakthrough. Happens all the time with gun/heart attack/car/pollution/etc. deaths. The last 2 years of COVID proved that to me pretty definitively.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#148
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is control . While a careful, attentive driver in a well-maintained vehicle certainly isn’t immune, their risk is much lower than someone who drives tired, drunk, or high in a car with bald tires and bad brakes.

the difference is the illusion of control. you can’t talk yourself past raw statistics that way. you might make a marginal difference in risk, but the bulk of the risk is beyond personal control. even with attentiveness, if you’re 1 of 100 drivers on the road, you’re at best controlling for 1% of that one risk. and i’d argue attentiveness (anti-distractedness) is the most important mass mitigation we could make, but…

It's way way higher than 1%. 30% of crashes involve a drunk driver. 30% of the drivers on the road are not drunk.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#149
(Un)friendly reminder that it's tautologically impossible for the general public to be bad at a subjective task like risk assessment or a subjectively assessed task such as driving because the general public is what sets the baseline for the subjective assessment.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#150
What's required are actually very significant structural changes. Veterans suicides are the result of war, which is mass killing normalized by false mythology. And it not enough to just say that's a bad idea, the problem is deeply rooted in the core global paradigm which is fundamentally uncivilized. You can't just say that hegemony is bad, you need an alternative, which is a very difficult task.

The problem with traffic deaths is again, structural. You are mixing 3000 pound vehicles, most of which contain only one passenger, with pedestrians in the same space. You have humans driving them.

The solution is small autonomous vehicles completely separated from pedestrians. This is very hard, but possible, and the materials wasted on oversized vehicles that are underutilized, office buildings that are mostly empty, incredibly poor density, etc. can also be used for that purpose.

Cities should actually be entirely redesigned.

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