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Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

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Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#361

Post by jcadam »

abirch wrote: post #339
dotdi wrote: post #256

More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upf…

It's foolish for the founders' part as well. They were wasting their programmers' time and effort as well. When I'm interviewing candidates, it's time that I'm losing. Why waste it on candidates who won't work for the salary?

If they don't respect candidates, maybe they don't respect their employees either.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#362

Post by derwiki »

tmp_anon_22 wrote: post #245

Every interview screen I've had in the last few years has been an opportunity to discuss salary before getting into the more grueling technical stages of the pipeline. Yes a screen call is annoying especially if you have a current work schedule but it really isn't that inefficient considering the phone screen is also the ideal medium to pick apart other aspects of the company and its constraints.

A phone screen is fine for that other stuff, but why invest even 30 minutes if you know they won’t pay what you are looking for?

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#363

Post by BlargMcLarg »

upupandup wrote: post #353
BlargMcLarg wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not unique to Canada at all, FWIW. Demanding top level skills while paying market rate at best has been going on for years now. Employers just don't want to change, and a lot of candidates are still accepting the circumstances. Especially noticeable with the whole cloud + microservices + event queue craze, since very few companies do anything with this yet, so few people actually accrue the knowledge they require, an…

what are you seeing right now with the whole cloud/MS/CQRS scene? Seems like after serverless took off more companies are pondering whether they need kubernetes at all. Yet I still see K8 positions without salary expectations. I wonder if companies will be able to afford the upkeep with these shops that hopped on the K8 wagon early before serverless was a thing.

Europe is lagging by a few years. They started demanding anything junior or above knows about cloud/MS/CQRS a few years ago while most of the local bigger names and below (Tier 2) have barely any inhouse knowledge beyond a few week 1 tutorials.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#364

Post by lordnacho »

dotdi wrote: post #256

More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upf…

I seriously don't get how slow firms hire anyone. Surely the people you want will vanish quickly?

I recently found a new job, had a backup offer after a week, and the job I actually wanted 4 weeks later, after about 7 working days post contact.

After I signed, several of the firms I'd interviewed with got back to me with interest. This is weeks after initial contact, and weeks after the last interview, so if course I thought they weren't interested.

I'm happy with with long thread time, but not long wall time. I don't mind people bringing me into 6 or 7 hours of interviews over a day or two, what I mind is doing those calls over the course of several weeks. It really bothers me to do an interview every week with a firm for a month.

For people who go for firms that are known for long processes, how do you do this? Just hang in there with your old job? What if something better turns up faster?

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#365

Post by jcadam »

b20000 wrote: post #334
dotdi wrote: post #256

More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upf…

This is also why you should not agree to do coding interviews.

I've found there's zero correlation between interview difficulty and compensation.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#366

Post by ipaddr »

wccrawford wrote: post #87
stitched2gethr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better to ask before the first interview, but that still takes more time than reading it off the posting.

I think it sends a back signal and will put a slight negative mark on the interviewers' memories of that interview. Asking at the end of the interview shows that you care about other things, too. You can argue that it shouldn't, but people are people.

I find it really bothers some companies while others are proud of their salary ranges and will gladly share upfront.

The ones who get offended usually pay less and have had issues with employees quiting over low salaries and/or have heard negative candidate feedback around pay

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#367

Post by throw1230 »

dotdi wrote: post #256

More anecdotal evidence: a few years back I wanted to get out of the work situation I was in. I looked around, had some interviews, had some offers. None of the postings had salary ranges, as is common where I live. My eyes, however, were set on a specific small company because I liked their product. The process was long and involved multiple meetings, a take-home problem, and stretched over 2 or so months. I was upf…

Any company with a competitive salary is willing to talk money anyway. If they don't, they don't have the budget

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#368

Post by ActorNightly »

kinnth wrote: post #297
gernb wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I'm considering the $70k place where as right now I have the $500k total comp. I can't say I hate my job but I have zero interest in it. Where as I had lots of The biggest reason I haven't pulled the trigger is there's no guarntee that taking the $70k will actually be fun this time. I have my criteria for taking the jump though and if they're met I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Yeah 500k all day. People love to preach about secondary benefits, but cold hard cash allows you to pay for most benefits you actually want. I think work is work, the more a workplaces tries to trick you into believing you're in a family or home environment they're not being clear on the work. Competency trumps all benefits.

Thing is, people live different lifestyles with different priorities.

Sure, if they could press a button and make more, they would, but in reality getting a higher salary requires to change jobs and they often have concerns about moving to a new place, doing something different, working with new people, wondering if they are going to like it or not, which ends up in them settling for a lower salary, especially if that salary covers everything they wanna do.

Often those thoughts are irrational, but thats how humans function.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#369

Post by xemdetia »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

I think the things missing from this anecdote are secondary sources like glassdoor or personal references. If a company is large enough to have a high enough headcount you can often find it through secondary sources so the salary range is not a 'surprise' or at least you know what the floor should be. The floor is the real problem with a lot of postings where the salary range that they are expecting to spend is just not even a close match.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#370

Post by daggerdrone »

ricardobeat wrote: post #300
jacquesm wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Save for one year then take 6 years off and come out roughly the same. That seems like an absolute no-brainer to me.

Not possible because their $500k/year likely only materializes after vesting. Leaving after only 3-4 years on the job would mean the realized yearly comp is closer to 200-250k.

Sorry but that's not how it works. $500k/year would mean roughly $250k base+bonus and $1 million of stocks vested over four years. And at most companies, the vesting starts after 1 year. So at the end of year one, you would have made $500k in base+bonus+stocks. And after that you would usually get the stocks every quarter so $62.5k worth of stocks every quarter. I am not sure where is your figure of 200-250k Total Comp coming from?
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