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Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

strongtowns.org

131–140 of 1001 posts

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you would probably rather be driving a car if your bus driver was suicidal that morning.

Even if that happened, how many people can seriously be injured in a bus accident in a city? Not talking of bus going through mountains and losing breaks

Hundreds. Imagine a bus veering off into a busy sidewalk.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you would probably rather be driving a car if your bus driver was suicidal that morning.

Even if that happened, how many people can seriously be injured in a bus accident in a city? Not talking of bus going through mountains and losing breaks

Everyone on the bus, if the bus driver decides to drive the bus off a bridge into a river

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find many of the issues brought up about public transit being unsafe revolve around the people you might encounter on public transit (drug users, homeless, mental illness, etc.) and the waiting around/walking to public transit stops (muggings, thefts, etc.) I've never had any issues myself, but have absolutely been exposed to those issues while taking transit. I've also witnessed those issues increase during/post l…

Try visiting Japan or South Korea or even central Europe.

Yes, these are clearly not universal human issues if somewhere like Japan can maintain clean, relatively safe, efficient public transportation. It should be obvious we should be looking outside of the US as to why certain societies are able to solve this issues and others are not.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#134
post #4

Human response is never in actual proportion to reality. For example, veterans have a suicide rate lower than farmers, fisherman, construction workers, maintenance workers, and engineers.

I don't think you are correct on engineers. General suicide rate in the US in 2019: 16.8/100k[0]. Suicide rate of veterans in the US in 2019: 31.6/100k[0]. Suicide rate of engineers in the US in 2016: 23.2/100k [1].

[0]: https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/docs/data-sheets/2021/2021-N... [1]: https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/84275

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you would probably rather be driving a car if your bus driver was suicidal that morning.

How many suicidal bus drivers have we had? I mean ever.

I just searched for “bus driver suicide” and it was a pretty even split between stories about drivers saving people who were trying to kill themselves, and drivers killing themselves. The latter was very much largely happening in solitary ways, except for one dude in China who drove his bus into a lake.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#136
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also can't be sure a random guy is not going to come from a side street on a red light at 90mph and T-bone you because he was answering a whatsapp and didn't notice the lights. I ride a motorbike. As part of training I was repeatedly told to wear protection not because of my riding skills, but because of everyone else's lack of skills.

Part of riding a motorbike (cycle here) is also driving defensively is it not? I don't assume people are going to stop at a given intersection, I take a look at their current speed and project it forward before determining if it's safe for me to go. If someone is going at a high rate of speed towards a stop sign or red light, I don't pull out just because I have the "right of way" I assume they are going to do someth…

Yes, but let's be honest: none of us has 360º eyes, and very few have split-millisecond reflexes. You control for the front, meanwhile somebody hits you from the rear; you look to the sides, and someone brakechecks you; and so on and so forth. You can reduce chances, but not eliminate them. Statistically, by the simple fact that you are sharing the road with hundreds of other (often terrible) drivers, the chance that one of them will fuck you up is incredibly higher than the chance of that happening on a public-transport vehicle in dedicated lanes (or even rails) driven by someone whose job is to safely move such vehicle from A to B every day.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#137
post #96

There’s an audio version of the same point here: https://podcast.strongtowns.org/e/the-drip-drip-drip-of-traf... A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. When a plane or train crashes, we stop everything and redesi…

It makes sense because, for most of America, we have designed our environment to be heavily dependent on the possibilities cars open up for us.

It is not the same with air or train travel. Those are useful, but not necessary for almost all people.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#139
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is control . While a careful, attentive driver in a well-maintained vehicle certainly isn’t immune, their risk is much lower than someone who drives tired, drunk, or high in a car with bald tires and bad brakes.

Sure. I also won't claim that driving is dangerous, in the abstract: human beings take all kinds of risks, lots of them for fun, and I'm not interested in restricting others' behavior on that basis . It's merely thought provoking: every HN thread on transit will have the same half-dozen comments about violence and danger on public transit, when the reality is that two orders of magnitude more deaths occur each year o…

People feel better protected in their cars. They're in a private rolling cage with all kinds of safety features and a built-in ability to get away from danger. They can also avoid more dangerous areas, practice defensive driving, and otherwise mitigate their chances of being one of those statistics.

Being confronted by a knife-wielding drug addict on public transit is just a scarier proposition all around even if the numbers suggest it shouldn't be. And it feels random where death in a car doesn't, even though for the victim it often is.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#140
post #14

The NTSB actually does investigate car crashes. Typically police do the actual footwork but if the cause is unknown NTSB agents will put boots on the ground. Unfortunately most of the causes are shared across many cases (speeding, distracted driving, drunk driving), so the cases end up getting lumped together into reports which can include tens of thousands of cases. However, they are performing root cause analysis.…

Human error isn’t a root cause.

Why were they able to speed on that road? Why did they feel safe being on their phone?

Every software engineer understands intrinsically that blaming the user does not improve outcomes. You cannot get folks to click the right button by putting “you must click the right button” into the terms of service, and then suing the users who click the wrong one.

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