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I resent designers for messing up user experience, pushing the industry away from good solutions that were discovered and implemented decades ago.
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Most non tech users never change the defaults on their phones/laptops. This means for those users, the scrollbar is effectively removed (other than scrolling).
I don't buy it. As soon as they start scrolling it "magically" appears again and thus it's not removed.
That's why so many websites have pointless scroll arrows inviting you to scroll.
That being said I would love if it was easier to add an overflow indicator using just CSS for situations where it is less apparent that a sub-element of a page can scroll.
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Again, disagree. This has it backwards. Microsoft isn't making it hard for you to opt-out because of the auto-hiding scrollbar. They're just taking advantage of it to make it harder in a new way. Before the scroll bar it was nesting it deep within menus.
> Before the scroll bar it was nesting it deep within menus. I'm not sure which version of Windows you think predated scroll bars, but I'm pretty sure it didn't have any telemetry reporting back to Microsoft over the internet.
Do you think having visible scroll-bars does anything if Microsoft just re-enables those settings when you update windows?
Even big, 'reputable' companies do this.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't buy it. As soon as they start scrolling it "magically" appears again and thus it's not removed.
But the point is that you don't know if there's more content without trying to scroll. That's why so many websites have pointless scroll arrows inviting you to scroll.
But not knowing if you can scroll is caused by poor website design and not by a hidden scrollbar
It looks a lot cleaner without. I prefer it the way it is
Apple, Android, Windows. Every OS has jumped into this bandwagon. Usability keeps deteriorating at the expense of aesthetics. I resent designers for messing up user experience, pushing the industry away from good solutions that were discovered and implemented decades ago.
There were many, MANY extremely intelligent and highly technical people who got into very long flame wars when the feature of displaying the X and Y coordinates of the center of a window and the corners whenever it was moved, was removed.
And now it seems silly.
What use case is there? Knowing all of the time how much of a webpage is left below the bottom of a window? That is not relevant information to most people and becomes immediately available as soon as you move your fingers 1mm to scroll through the contents of a window.
Quickly jumping position in a long window? Normal users don't care and power users use HOME, END, PGUP, PGDOWN or other keyboard shortcuts because it is very highly unlikely that you know the exact percentage of a window you need to scroll through and the time taken removing your hands from the keyboard exceeds the time saved by knowing that direct percentage anyways.
I have a Model M and fancy-pants trackball but the vast, overwhelming majority of users are interacting with their computers using a touchpad or their fingers. To the point that mouse users should be deprioritized to enhance the experience of the majority.
Removing persistent scrollbars puts the needs of the many ahead of the few.... or the one.
In some cases removing the bar made sense. Now it's just fancy copy/paste where it does not apply and the bar would have been useful.