Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges • Hacker News Board

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#81

Post by memling » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 5:50 PM UTC

time_to_smile wrote: post #70

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

> before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Care to mention what they are? Because I suspect your ranges are out of line with industry standards that have risen quite rapidly. I know because I've started responding to any recruiters that sound interesting asking for comp ranges and they are all below my current base, let alone TC. If the upper bound of your range doesn't exceed $350k there is…

> If the upper bound of your range doesn't exceed $350k there is no chance that any of the senior engineers I know will apply and honestly to get something to think about leaving a job they are moderately happy with you'd have to have that be the lower bound of your range.

Outside of SV, that upper-bound is an absolutely wild number.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#82

Post by abeppu » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 5:51 PM UTC

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

I think you're reading the rather poor evidence in a pretty tilted way. "Attractive fixed salary" is not "way down on the list"; it's #8 on a top 10 list in a "study" (cough survey) that considered 26 factors. Further "salary" and "attractive fixed salary" are not the same; perhaps people enjoy a competitive base salary plus a performance bonus. And frankly you say "salary is a sign of respect from you (sic) employer", and you highlight a consultant claiming that the most important thing is "Appreciation for your work" ... why would people believe you appreciate their work if they're not compensated well?

The OP also doesn't say that their "primary reason for responding to an ad is based upon salary"; they may also be filtering aggressively based on the industry, tech stack, role, etc, and also filtering based on salary.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#83

Post by lazyasciiart » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 5:51 PM UTC

verdverm wrote: post #26

praptak wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like having to ask.

what else do you not like but still have to do?

What makes you think he has to take jobs that don't tell him the salary upfront?

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#84

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 5:51 PM UTC

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#85

Post by wccrawford » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 5:51 PM UTC

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

My father once told me that money is how the company tells you how much they value you.

It isn't just about the money, it's about the respect. Many, many people leave jobs because of the salary. Not just they need more money, but because they know they're worth more than that and can get it.

Those people are not going to bother looking at jobs that pay less than they're worth. They are absolutely going to look at the money first, and other benefits after. All those benefits matter, but money is the one that's forced their hand. And by extension, respect.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#86

Post by voakbasda » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 5:52 PM UTC

kxyvr wrote: post #58

hyperrail wrote: post #23

https://www.coloradoexcluded.com/ It seems to have been less active lately, but based on what you say, that may not be because employers are responding to the incentive...

How well is this law actually enforced? As an example, I quickly pulled a physician job at a random HCA hospital in Denver: https://careers.hcahealthcare.com/jobs/9031565-pulmonary-sla... I see no salary ranges. I pulled some other medical jobs as well and it seems moderately random if they list anything at all. Really, I may be misunderstanding the law and what information is supposed to be disclosed, but the larger…

Like many laws, it may be less expensive to break the law and pay the fines than to comply with it.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#87

Post by wccrawford » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 5:54 PM UTC

stitched2gethr wrote: post #10

donatj wrote: post #5

> No need to waste time with 7 rounds of interviewing only to find out the salary is 50% of what I currently make. You can just ask at the end of the first interview. I've never had a problem doing so.

Better to ask before the first interview, but that still takes more time than reading it off the posting.

I think it sends a back signal and will put a slight negative mark on the interviewers' memories of that interview. Asking at the end of the interview shows that you care about other things, too.

You can argue that it shouldn't, but people are people.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#88

Post by mkl95 » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 5:54 PM UTC

Spammers != headhunters. The former tend to post low effort, programmatic crap and may not be allowed to give straight answers to your $$ questions. The latter will offer you an above market salary range up front, and then help you negotiate a higher number during the hiring process. Know who you are dealing with.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#89

Post by wvenable » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 5:54 PM UTC

Victerius wrote: post #65

sha256sum wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot has changed since 2014. Any more recent metrics on this?

Human nature doesn't change in a meek 8 years.

Culture can change quickly and I believe that it has.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#90

Post by frollo » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 5:54 PM UTC

phphphphp wrote: post #6

fdgsdfogijq wrote: post #3

The salary ranges are largely meaningless though? Equity compensation for good tech roles is like half or more. Also, levels.fyi has most salary information you could need.

Equity compensation has meaningful value for a small minority of roles (i.e: at liquid companies) so for the majority of job seekers, salary is the compensation.

It also depends a lot on the person. Like, I totally refuse equities as a compensation and thus would not consider any job with a salary under my minimum, even if the equities would bring the total compensation to an extremely high value.