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Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

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Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#51

Post by honkdaddy »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

The link you posted presents studies which found the opposite conclusion.

>A 2014 SAP survey found that compensation is the #1 factor that matters most to employees.

>Another survey by the SHRM (Society for Human Resource Management) conducted in 2013 also found that compensation and pay was the #1 factor contributing to job satisfaction

Then later,

>Several other studies have also emerged around what employees care about at work but the most recent one from Boston Consulting Group which surveyed over 200,000 people around the world is one of the most comprehensive. Unlike previous studies which may point to flexibility or salary as the top factor for job happiness, BCG found that the #1 factor for employee happiness on the job is get appreciated for their work!

I don't know much about Boston Consulting Group, but my intuition says they may have been contracted by higher-ups with the intention of finding that exact conclusion. Cynical, yes, but so often that's how these consulting-funded-research-studies end up being. I can't speak for anyone else, but compensation is still above and beyond the most important factor when considering a job.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#52

Post by BlargMcLarg »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

>Of the top reasons people are happy at work, salary is way down on the list.

You're conflating multiple things here. People aren't focusing on money because it's the most important part. They focus on money because it's one of the few things that's relatively easy to make tangible ahead of time. Similar goes for things like remote/hybrid, secondary benefits, etc.

Many elements on that list, while important, are incredibly difficult to equate in practice without speaking with employees or reading up on the company. Take the following:

>1 Appreciation for your work

How in the world are you going to evaluate this pre-interview or even post hiring process? Both parties are showing their best selves. It's incredibly abstract and difficult to measure.

>2 Good relationships with colleagues

Again, difficult to measure. Establishing good relationships takes time. Additionally, most places (at least here) have people who are decent to get along with, they aren't filled with horror individuals. At least, I'd hope hiring processes would at least filter the most obvious nutcases out after all those hours spent.

>3 Good work-life balance

Here's one you can measure much more easily. Few core hours and a "do whatever whenever" mentality outside of core hours attracts individuals. Still I don't see most companies post it. It goes far beyond hybrid and remote work, and even that is already hard to pull out of them. Then at the end of the interview, you get a "yeah we have a flexible schedule. Our hours are from 7 to 7." Great.. I guess.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#54

Post by ThalesX »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

> Of the top reasons people are happy at work, salary is way down on the list.

> It is important, it makes it possible to pay bills, but it isn't what makes people happy. Meaning, if you are looking for a place you will enjoy working, do not start with salary.

This feels strange to me… I have a minimum salary for which I wouldn’t consider working for a company even if they offered me flying rainbow unicorns. It’s not a gajillion $FAANG but there is a minimum.

If I can get that at the beginning of the process, this saves both myself and the company time and money.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#55

Post by reaperducer »

hyperrail wrote: post #23

https://www.coloradoexcluded.com/ It seems to have been less active lately, but based on what you say, that may not be because employers are responding to the incentive...

I think that web site is out of date. I clicked on a few, and the companies are still hiring Colorado people.

For example, clicking through the Accenture link to a job listing shows:

"As required by Colorado law under the Equal Pay for Equal Work Act, Accenture provides a reasonable range of compensation for roles that may be hired in Colorado. Actual compensation is influenced by a wide array of factors including but not limited to skill set, level of experience, and specific office location. For the state of Colorado only, the range of starting pay for this role is $112,000-$134,000 and information on benefits offered is here."

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#56

Post by sha256sum »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

A lot has changed since 2014. Any more recent metrics on this?

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#57

Post by tashi »

kokanator wrote: post #32

We just went through a large hiring cycle. We posted two versions for every job posting- one with salary ranges and one without. The ads performed equally well in regard to total responses with the better candidates responding to the ones without salary ranges. And... before you say, perhaps your salary ranges were bad, they weren't. Our salary offerings are very aggressive to the developer's benefit. In my opinion,…

That's surprising to me. What statistical measures did you use to make sure your conclusion wasn't confirmation bias?

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#58

Post by kxyvr »

hyperrail wrote: post #23

https://www.coloradoexcluded.com/ It seems to have been less active lately, but based on what you say, that may not be because employers are responding to the incentive...

How well is this law actually enforced? As an example, I quickly pulled a physician job at a random HCA hospital in Denver:

https://careers.hcahealthcare.com/jobs/9031565-pulmonary-sla...

I see no salary ranges. I pulled some other medical jobs as well and it seems moderately random if they list anything at all. Really, I may be misunderstanding the law and what information is supposed to be disclosed, but the larger hospitals and medical groups in Colorado mostly don't post salary ranges.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#59

Post by martinsmit »

cygned wrote: post #37

We don’t post salary ranges right now. We are a small firm and cannot keep up with the salaries from enterprises in our area. We are looking for (and finding) candidates that are willing to sacrifice parts of their salary for 100% remote, flexible work time, PTO and others. We decided to screen applicants in an informal phone call and discuss salary options at the end, after they had a first impression of how we are…

How has that gone for your firm? Why was the decision made not just be upfront about the salary? If you are afraid that people won't be willing to work with you if they knew the salary then why potentially waste their time?

The first impression of how you are as a firm is the job ad, and if you don't post a salary the first impression is worse.

Re: Tell HN: You can't hire because you don't post salary ranges

#60

Post by ejb999 »

projectazorian wrote: post #39

Just ask in the initial phone screen. Say you won't entertain roles below and you don't want to waste everyone's time. Usually recruiters appreciate this and if they can't give you the number themselves they will check with the hiring manager. Some people say this reduces your negotiating leverage because it reveals your hand too much. I try to get around this by making clear it's a minimum, not a maximum, and anythi…

I always ask salary range before I even apply, and especially before I share a resume - like the OP, I don't want to waste my time (or the recruiters time) doing the dance only to find out they are not even close to what I need to consider a move.
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