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Adverse effects of Covid-19 vaccines and measures to prevent them

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Adverse effects of Covid-19 vaccines and measures to prevent them

#21

Post by kyazawa »

origin_path wrote: post #16
kyazawa wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am so confused about this. The linked Lancet study seems to make the opposite claim, as far as I can tell. Furthermore, the Lancet study seems to be specifically focused on COVID vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19, whereas the quote makes it sound like the study showed a general decrease in immune function among the vaccinated. Am I missing something here, or is Kenji Yamamoto's paper completely fraudulent?

Look at figure 2 in the Lancet study. Seems to be making that claim indeed. As for immune function, the phrasing isn't as precise as it could be but he's paraphrasing a cited study so does it have to be? There's lots of fraud in science but that word should be reserved for things that justify it, like made up data, misrepresenting your own data, motivated reasoning etc. Assuming the reader will understand what's mean…

Thank you. That helps me to view the author's paraphrasing in a more charitable light. "Fraudulent" may have been too strong of a word. I still find it misleading to paraphrase a study in a way that is different from its main conclusion. We don't know what data concerns, etc. the study authors may have had such that they did not explicitly reach this conclusion. And the imprecision in Yamamoto's wording seems intended to mislead as well.

This is an interesting area of study and I'm sure a different author would make a more persuasive case for/against this effect being real.

Re: Adverse effects of Covid-19 vaccines and measures to prevent them

#22

Post by mwint »

humanlion87 wrote: post #8

> The media have so far concealed the adverse events of vaccine administration, such as vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia (VITT), owing to biased propaganda. This statement seems completely unnecessary when discussing the vaccine effects based on scientific evidence. Only ends up casting a doubt on the motivations of the author.

Well, the mainstream media certainly has not exaggerated the adverse events. If you know something is definitely not exaggerated, the distribution falls between “perfectly accurate” and “downplayed”. My money is on some level of “downplayed” being correct.

Re: Adverse effects of Covid-19 vaccines and measures to prevent them

#23

Post by fnordpiglet »

Here’s the full article with references

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s12985...

From my reading it seems to have a number of unexplained leaps of logic allowing its conclusion to be supported. But it seems like it’s reasonable to do post mortem analysis and understand any possible downsides. The key for me is that mRNA has such potential it would be absurd to not analyze the massive natural experiment on the technology. But this review isn’t convincing of there being a problem and there’s lots of “and after COVID shots we saw X happen” with nothing really indicating a causal relationship. The incident rates being discussed of potential issues are in single digit individuals, which doesn’t concern me given the number of vaccine recipients, but seems reasonable to keep your eye out for.

Re: Adverse effects of Covid-19 vaccines and measures to prevent them

#24

Post by muzika »

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #20
g42gregory wrote: post #12

I am fascinated with learning about the process of deciding what topics are on the approved list for the discussion. Short 6 months ago, this is not something that people would be encouraged to discuss publicly. I am getting the sense that everybody is going by the main stream media rules. But how does the main stream media itself decide what is allowed at any given time? Does somebody actually calls around all the e…

Have you heard of the Trusted News Initiative? [1] >Who is involved? >Core partners in the TNI are: AP, AFP, BBC, CBC/Radio-Canada, European Broadcasting Union (EBU), Financial Times, First Draft, Google/YouTube, The Hindu, The Nation Media Group, Meta, Microsoft, Reuters, Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism, Twitter, The Washington Post. So that sounds nice from a project management perspective, but it's t…

I can confirm that in the Russian-American community there is a lot of talk about how western governments now using same tactics that were used by the USSR government.

Re: Adverse effects of Covid-19 vaccines and measures to prevent them

#25

Post by fastaguy88 »

danboarder wrote: post #2

One quote that stood out from the start: "The [Lancet] study showed that immune function among vaccinated individuals 8 months after the administration of two doses of COVID-19 vaccine was lower than that among the unvaccinated individuals."

And, if you actually read the Lancet study and understand statistical estimates, it is clear that the Lancet study does not say this at all. There is no mention of long-term immune depression in the abstract, because there is no statistically significant support for that conclusion. After 8 months, the line they show does go below zero (suggesting more infections in vaccinated people) but the error bars include zero, supporting the more sensible conclusion that at some point, the vaccine is not effective. But there is no evidence that the vaccine actually raises risk, which is the argument proposed.

Re: Adverse effects of Covid-19 vaccines and measures to prevent them

#26

Post by TurkishPoptart »

muzika wrote: post #24
TurkishPoptart wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you heard of the Trusted News Initiative? [1] >Who is involved? >Core partners in the TNI are: AP, AFP, BBC, CBC/Radio-Canada, European Broadcasting Union (EBU), Financial Times, First Draft, Google/YouTube, The Hindu, The Nation Media Group, Meta, Microsoft, Reuters, Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism, Twitter, The Washington Post. So that sounds nice from a project management perspective, but it's t…

I can confirm that in the Russian-American community there is a lot of talk about how western governments now using same tactics that were used by the USSR government.

I'd like to hear more about this or get their take. Maybe if I could gather some interviews it'd be easier to get the word out about what's been going on. But most people don't care, and will keep getting jabbed without thinking twice.

Re: Adverse effects of Covid-19 vaccines and measures to prevent them

#27

Post by origin_path »

kyazawa wrote: post #21
origin_path wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at figure 2 in the Lancet study. Seems to be making that claim indeed. As for immune function, the phrasing isn't as precise as it could be but he's paraphrasing a cited study so does it have to be? There's lots of fraud in science but that word should be reserved for things that justify it, like made up data, misrepresenting your own data, motivated reasoning etc. Assuming the reader will understand what's mean…

Thank you. That helps me to view the author's paraphrasing in a more charitable light. "Fraudulent" may have been too strong of a word. I still find it misleading to paraphrase a study in a way that is different from its main conclusion. We don't know what data concerns, etc. the study authors may have had such that they did not explicitly reach this conclusion. And the imprecision in Yamamoto's wording seems intende…

If you aren't familiar with vaccine research then citing a paper whilst contradicting its conclusion may look odd or malicious, but it's not. Vaccine papers are quite "special". The problem is that scientific journals simply will not publish any paper on vaccines that doesn't praise them, regardless of merit or data. This pattern is extremely consistent.

So when someone is making an argument that isn't 100% pro-vaccine, and they cite a paper, what they mean is ignore the commentary, look at the data. They may not bother spelling this out explicitly because you get used to it so fast and then can easily forget that many people won't actually read the paper, they'll just look at the abstract and assume it's honest.

In this case their argument for boosters is simply that effectiveness keeps dropping, so everyone should take boosters. There isn't anything deeper, and obviously such an argument is facile in the extreme.

Re: Adverse effects of Covid-19 vaccines and measures to prevent them

#28

Post by nonameking2026 »

mwint wrote: post #22
humanlion87 wrote: post #8

> The media have so far concealed the adverse events of vaccine administration, such as vaccine-induced immune thrombotic thrombocytopenia (VITT), owing to biased propaganda. This statement seems completely unnecessary when discussing the vaccine effects based on scientific evidence. Only ends up casting a doubt on the motivations of the author.

Well, the mainstream media certainly has not exaggerated the adverse events. If you know something is definitely not exaggerated, the distribution falls between “perfectly accurate” and “downplayed”. My money is on some level of “downplayed” being correct.

Some would put you in the anti-vaxer camp with this kind of statement.

Re: Adverse effects of Covid-19 vaccines and measures to prevent them

#29

Post by nonameking2026 »

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #20
g42gregory wrote: post #12

I am fascinated with learning about the process of deciding what topics are on the approved list for the discussion. Short 6 months ago, this is not something that people would be encouraged to discuss publicly. I am getting the sense that everybody is going by the main stream media rules. But how does the main stream media itself decide what is allowed at any given time? Does somebody actually calls around all the e…

Have you heard of the Trusted News Initiative? [1] >Who is involved? >Core partners in the TNI are: AP, AFP, BBC, CBC/Radio-Canada, European Broadcasting Union (EBU), Financial Times, First Draft, Google/YouTube, The Hindu, The Nation Media Group, Meta, Microsoft, Reuters, Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism, Twitter, The Washington Post. So that sounds nice from a project management perspective, but it's t…

Either you are one of those anti vaccers or I have to start thinking for myself.
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