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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#941

Post by nerdjon »

brtkdotse wrote: post #185
yoavm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, an iPhone that complies with these demands is actually the first iPhone I'd ever consider paying for. I wonder if this might actually increase adoption.

It’s not a popular opinion around here, but the reason I like my iPhone is _because_ it’s a walled garden. It just works, reliably, without surprises, for years on end.

As an iPhone user this is my primary concern.

The idea of this is great in theory. But since when have third party companies ever acted for the benefit of the user. This is one of those cases where I felt like Apple benefiting also benefited me as a user.

Epic is a fantastic example that went to great lengths to not use the App Store for Fortnite.

I worry that allowing this will make it so more developers use third party billing (and dark patterns for canceling), third party app stores that may do shady things, or just distributing packages directly.

Sure you can make the argument that I can just not download those apps, but once a company realizes they can abuse their customers by not needing to conform to the rules that Apple sets. Why would continue to be on the App Store?

I am watching this very carefully, but I worry that as a consumer I will loose one of the key reasons I use an iPhone.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#943

Post by MR4D »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #200
brtkdotse wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a popular opinion around here, but the reason I like my iPhone is _because_ it’s a walled garden. It just works, reliably, without surprises, for years on end.

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. This however isn't a reason for the rest of the world to accept this. And since the power in the market is highly concentrated and all of it is moving more and more in this direction, regulation enforces these alternative options now. All this does is regulate the power the provider of a product has over their customer. This does not ruin the walled garden for the…

> That's fine, just stay on the default settings then.

That’s actually not possible though. For instance, Microsoft is likely to create its own app store, as is Adobe, Google, and obviously Epic, among the many others. So now I will have to install a bunch of app stores just to install different softwares.

I already have this problem on my gaming PC where I not only have a bunch of different app stores, but a bunch of different update tools, payment providers, logins (not just for the games, but for the app stores). It’s a freaking pain in the butt. I just want to play a game on my PC and I have to deal with crap like that. I don’t want it on my phone!

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#944

Post by whywhywhywhy »

dx034 wrote: post #920
pmcollins wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the cookie law should have ended up with a browser setting. but eu bureaucrats apparently don’t know the first thing about web standards (and why would they) so we get every single website in the world having to code a custom dialog, and billions of users having to click through them forever. this legislation is the eu cookie law writ large: well meaning, ill conceived, government overreach by bureaucrats who don’t r…

No, the EU knew that something like a DNT header could never work. And let's not forget: No one needs a cookie popup. If you don't track more than technically necessary, there's no need to get consent or inform the user. It's just that everyone likes to collect as much data as they can that these popups are necessary.

This thinking is why we must dismiss multiple of these dialogs daily.

It could and should have been a setting.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#945

Post by dmix »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #590
dmix wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the walled gardens are clearly a market failure I wouldn't call it a market failure, there's plenty of benefits with wall gardens and it's not done solely for profit. BUT there's also drawbacks and places where walls don't make sense. Not being able to install arbitrary apps from various app stores provides security, UX consistency, and stability of the software. But there's also drawbacks for things like privacy o…

> I wouldn't call it a market failure, there's plenty of benefits to [walled garden] Do you realise the irony of arguing for free market and a walled garden (not a free market)- simultaneously? You can't have it both ways, pick your poison

Smartphones are in a market, yes...? I can also buy an Android or Pinephone, or use an open source OS like Graphene. That means you have a choice not to use iPhone's garden or use Google's or none... via F-Droid style app stores.

Do you think free-markets means corporations also need to run their business operations and products/platforms like a market? Because that's not what that means. (Even if it did ideological purity is dumb)

Inversely governments forcing companies to all operate with the same business model is not on a free market.

The only thing that would prevent a walled garden from operating in a free market is if Apple et al was a monopoly/oligopoly and you had no other choices. I've already said antitrust laws for things like browser choice is one of the better solutions than the one proposed.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#946

Post by s3p »

microtonal wrote: post #213
turbinerneiter wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. This however isn't a reason for the rest of the world to accept this. And since the power in the market is highly concentrated and all of it is moving more and more in this direction, regulation enforces these alternative options now. All this does is regulate the power the provider of a product has over their customer. This does not ruin the walled garden for the…

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. I agree in principle, but I worry that we end up in the situation where if you need to use a particular app, you can only get it from a third-party store that you don't trust. (Something gross like Facebook starting an app store.) Or course, this is mostly a result of Apple being greedy. If they had acted like a good steward of the platform rather than trying to ex…

>Or course, this is mostly a result of Apple being greedy. If they had acted like a good steward of the platform rather than trying to extract a lot of money from developers, we probably wouldn't be here

I don't think so. Another comment was mentioning how some desktop apps are built to install ONLY from a certain marketplace (eg Steam) so you can't install them from anywhere else. It could easily happen on iOS.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#947

Post by patchd »

anhner wrote: post #829
nemothekid wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. For some reason every Linux user assumes everyone is as smart as they are and anyone who doesn't take the time to learn whatever esoteric config file to manage their DE is a child that can't tell left from right. Somehow the decade of directed scams and proliferation of malware and spyware isn't a problem and it's the developers "right" to be able to turn…

> When Facebook mandates that to install Instagram you must sideload it from the Facebook store and your entire's family's location is being tracked 24/7 I hope you will thank Zuckerberg for all the freedom hes giving you How will the Instagram app evade iOS's security measures if it's sideloaded?

Doesn’t go through app review when it’s side loaded, so it can have features that go against the ToS or app guidelines

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#950

Post by kavenkanum »

MR4D wrote: post #943
turbinerneiter wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. This however isn't a reason for the rest of the world to accept this. And since the power in the market is highly concentrated and all of it is moving more and more in this direction, regulation enforces these alternative options now. All this does is regulate the power the provider of a product has over their customer. This does not ruin the walled garden for the…

> That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. That’s actually not possible though. For instance, Microsoft is likely to create its own app store, as is Adobe, Google, and obviously Epic, among the many others. So now I will have to install a bunch of app stores just to install different softwares. I already have this problem on my gaming PC where I not only have a bunch of different app stores, but a bunch o…

Then maybe someone come with a platform that is agnostic. Like Humble Bundle - they offer in many cases both Steam codes AND ability to download directly from their servers with no need to install any additional platform software.
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