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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#931

Post by trh0awayman »

mk89 wrote: post #838
buscoquadnary wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. Further it seems more like a moat to keep anyone else from getting as big as these "digital gatekeepers" are as suddenly when you get to a certain size you have an enormous expense. If these companies really are that large that they have to get special laws for them i…

Did you ever read Thinking in Systems (D. Meadows)? It's quite a nice read and there are some nice paragraphs about why we need rules to prevent or reduce monopolies.

There are very real, very scary monopolies in Europe that are actually an issue that will never be dealt with. Whether or not iMessage can talk to Whatsapp has almost zero effect on my life.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#932

Post by simondotau »

bogwog wrote: post #755
simondotau wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this law doesn’t force the consoles to open up, it will prove that it was not grounded in real principles. Consoles are computers, just as surely as an iPhone is.

> Consoles are computers, just as surely as an iPhone is. I don’t think most people see it that way. Game consoles could be general purpose computers if you changed the operating system, but no one (except maybe PS3 customers) buys a game console expecting to use it for general computing. Likewise, the computer in a Tesla is probably powerful enough to run a full desktop operating system, but it’s clearly not what it…

I disagree with the implied assertion that playing modern video games is insufficient to class a device as general purpose computing. Video games are no less of a "general purpose" computing task as sending an email or doing your taxes.

I further disagree that the rules should vary based on customer expectations. If Apple isn't allowed to argue that most of their customers see their iPhone as a communications appliance and not a general purpose computer, Sony shouldn't be allowed to argue that most of their customers think of their PS5 as an games appliance.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#933

Post by bluesign »

tirpen wrote: post #353
sfe22 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

Most of these rules apply only to companies above a certain size, both in number of users and revenue. Those get classified as "digital gatekeepers" and they are the companies that have to comply with extra requirements. So no, this will not affect startups and harm innovation, it will just force the monopolistic behemoths to play nice and cease actively harming innovation.

It will limit startup’s valuation for sure.

Valuation will limit startups chance to raise investment.

Less investment in general will limit startups runway.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#934

Post by [deleted] »

unity1001 wrote: post #864
a4a4a4a4 wrote: post #194

I'm not sure how I feel about this. My gut instinct is that opening these things can lead to a ton of malware and fake app stores, which will lead to a not-insignificant number of people being victimized. I'm also annoyed that the EU produces effectively 0 innovative tech, and subsequently has very suppressed tech salaries, but is so ready to regulate the American companies that make the world go 'round.

> the EU produces effectively 0 innovative tech Eu produces effectively 0 innovative tech because the PR marketing-machine that is geared to sell you stocks on the US stock market makes incessant noise about American companies to sell those shares to you while excluding anyone outside. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/10/meet-europe-top-tech-... Those are the 'hot up and coming'. https://www.value.today/top-compan…

[deleted]

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#935

Post by krzyk »

throw10920 wrote: post #333
gostsamo wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing stops you of staying in the garden though. Just don't install anything Apple and you'd be golden.

Now that there's a way out, however, you can be forced out if e.g. you have to install an app that isn't available in the App Store because its developer saw an opportunity to roll their own. Not saying that the trade isn't worth it, just that, well, now that Pandora's box is open, it's coming to get you, even if you don't want it to.

> Now that there's a way out, however, you can be forced out if e.g. you have to install an app that isn't available in the App Store because its developer saw an opportunity to roll their own.

This is something iPhone uses use all the time and this did not happen on Android.

Some people just like golden handcufs.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#936

Post by krzyk »

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

Yeah, finally.

I wonder why Google is there, they don't block any of this.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#937

Post by pid_0 »

alaric410 wrote: post #900
d12bb wrote: post #895

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux has been hacked and is no better when Windows?

OP made an unsubstantiated claim that Apple products are more secure. I pointed that out.

They are. You may be seeing more exploits in general because there is monetary incentive to find them, but iPhone is more secure in general especially when it comes to malware. They also have 5 or more years of support for devices and historically patched very old versions for security issues. Unlike android where 10% of the users are on the latest update, if the carrier even supplies it!

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#938

Post by diffeomorphism »

sfe22 wrote: post #320
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

You mean "anti-monopolistic" regulations. That also answers all of your questions.

> This looks like it will kill competition and harm European innovation

I don't really understand how you got from "you are not allowed to stifle competition" to having less of it?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#939

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

Barrin92 wrote: post #797
astrange wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're really anxious to have infinite amounts of spam from bridged messaging services that noone can do anything to stop?

>that noone can do anything to stop I think clicking the button that says "only accept messages from my contacts" on the messaging service of your choice ought to solve that problem

this is the kind of FUD that needs to be stopped. sure, if you get telegram spam, wont you be able to block telegram from messaging you so whats the big deal about this?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#940

Post by diffeomorphism »

enos_feedler wrote: post #351
Gareth321 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And yet, Apple can still charge software companies whatever they want to allow software to run on the phones. This is explicitly disallowed in the legislation. See page 131: >The gatekeeper shall allow providers of services and providers of hardware, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purposes of interoperability to, the same hardware and software features accessed or controlled via…

The simple work around is to provide lower quality of service to all of the platforms features and claim it is the only way to achieve _effective_ interoperability without jeopardizing the user experience

> The simple work around is to (lie)

That seems like dubious advice.

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