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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#921

Post by maratc »

yoavm wrote: post #100
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

Interestingly enough, an iPhone that complies with these demands is actually the first iPhone I'd ever consider paying for. I wonder if this might actually increase adoption.

For me, "an iPhone that complies with these demands" would be a worse experience than the current one. I have no intention to install Microsoft app store (so I can get Outlook), Facebook app store (so I can get WhatsApp), and Google app store (so I can have Maps). I prefer having one app store to having four different ones.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#922

Post by dx034 »

dodobirdlord wrote: post #788
yohannparis wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can easily warn a user that messaging a user using a different protocol will not be encrypted. On the iPhone, this is done visually with the blue/green bubbles. But other solutions can be implemented.

If I am using, say, Signal, I do not want it to be possible to send me an unencrypted message at all. That philosophy of security sounds likely to run afoul of this legislation.

Signal can give you the option to disable that. They just cannot force that decision on users.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#923

Post by dx034 »

biztos wrote: post #522
CaptainNegative wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU-based *aaS companies are practically nonexistent relative to US-based ones, so there's basically nothing holding them back from passing bills like this one gerrymandered to (i) companies with a global market cap above €75B, (ii) with 45 million European users, (iii) and an included web browser or messaging app. If they had companies satisfying those criteria, they'd certainly see more pushback. I personally like t…

Would it not be possible to spin off “iPhone Europe PLC” which is worth less than the threshold? If it were truly independent then Apple’s “global market cap” would be irrelevant, and Cupertino could collect via IP licensing in Luxembourg taxed at 5%. [edited for clarity, I think]

Apple with just European users would be worth much more. If a company really wasn't that big just in Europe, there would be a case to exclude them. Apple certainly isn't one of them.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#924

Post by permo-w »

pmcollins wrote: post #732
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #414

I do wish iPhones could use alternate browser engines and bypass the Apple 30% cut, but the fact I'm having to click through one of those stupid cookie dialogs on this page just leaves the bad taste in my mouth of how much the EU regulation screwed up the internet the last time they made a change like this. Not saying I want tracking cookies everywhere, but they should have just made tracking cookies illegal outright…

the cookie law should have ended up with a browser setting. but eu bureaucrats apparently don’t know the first thing about web standards (and why would they) so we get every single website in the world having to code a custom dialog, and billions of users having to click through them forever. this legislation is the eu cookie law writ large: well meaning, ill conceived, government overreach by bureaucrats who don’t r…

you're really painting it.

in America, as a website, you're still perfectly allowed to use marketing cookies without permission, or just not provide the option of saying no. taking away that privilege is "government overreach"?

gdpr is also much bigger than just cookies. it's also a wide-ranging law forcing companies to more careful with your data and delete it if you ask

the EU politicians rightly do not represent the companies affected

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#925

Post by krzyk »

brtkdotse wrote: post #185
yoavm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, an iPhone that complies with these demands is actually the first iPhone I'd ever consider paying for. I wonder if this might actually increase adoption.

It’s not a popular opinion around here, but the reason I like my iPhone is _because_ it’s a walled garden. It just works, reliably, without surprises, for years on end.

Interesting why, the name Hacker News implies being able to hack around even (or espacially, this is basically a supercomputer most of us carry around all the time) with your phone.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#926

Post by Avamander »

kaashif wrote: post #704
woojoo666 wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GDPR outcome was largely good though. I can download my data from way more websites than I could before

> The GDPR outcome was largely good though. The issue with GDPR-style regulations with huge penalties is that it makes it harder for new entrants to the market to operate without fear of violating the law by accident. Big tech has no such fear due to huge legal departments. Maybe the outcome overall is still good, but let's remember that Facebook (and Mark Zuckerberg personaly) was/is at the forefront of demanding he…

If you replace the abbreviation "GDPR" with the words "food safety", you'll understand how silly such arguments sound.

An example: "The issue with food safety style regulations with huge penalties is that it makes it harder for new entrants to the market to operate without fear of violating the law by accident. Big food has no such fear due to huge legal departments."

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#927

Post by Avamander »

pmcollins wrote: post #743
hestefisk wrote: post #92

European democracy at its best. Proud to be European today.

did you feel proud when the eu passed the cookie law? are you proud every time you have to wait for and click through a cookie modal? (never mind the development costs) you might end up with an ad- and app-store- riddled europhone and if you decide that you want to buy a us or international spec iphone you won’t be permitted to do so.

You do understand that those popups indicate either malicious compliance, incompetence or unnecessary tracking? Do you think keeping any of those three hidden is in any way better?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#928

Post by krzyk »

microtonal wrote: post #213
turbinerneiter wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. This however isn't a reason for the rest of the world to accept this. And since the power in the market is highly concentrated and all of it is moving more and more in this direction, regulation enforces these alternative options now. All this does is regulate the power the provider of a product has over their customer. This does not ruin the walled garden for the…

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. I agree in principle, but I worry that we end up in the situation where if you need to use a particular app, you can only get it from a third-party store that you don't trust. (Something gross like Facebook starting an app store.) Or course, this is mostly a result of Apple being greedy. If they had acted like a good steward of the platform rather than trying to ex…

> if you need to use a particular app, you can only get it from a third-party store that you don't trust

This sounds like iPhone user argument. In Android world you can have multiple app stores, but if you want your app to be used you must be on Google one, because it has the most eyes. Facebook didn't create their own app store.

Custom App stores are fringe apps, with exceptions of f-droid which is source of open source apps and many prefer it to google play (and apps are frequently on both stores) and maybe samsung/amazon ones because they are preinstalled on some devices.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#929

Post by Avamander »

ysleepy wrote: post #94
amelius wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but Apple will make sure they run at 50% lower speed. /s

You joke, didn't Apple add custom instructions to their silicon to accelerate their safari/js hot paths like they did with rosetta 2?

No, those instructions are a part of ARMv8.3 and used by many.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#930

Post by ThatPlayer »

FridgeSeal wrote: post #707

I actually think this is an awful decision, and will likely result in the erosion of the data/privacy guarantees Apple has established, for little to no benefit. “We’ll be able to side load apps” great. Good for you. I eagerly await the proliferation of trash app stores peddling all the apps that were rightfully rejected from the Apple Store for good reasons. “You’ll be able to iMessage android users” fantastic, now…

Then maybe Apple should release an iMessage app for Android officially. So you don't have to worry about random developers.
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