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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#851

Post by unity1001 »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #394
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

> Use existing hardware and software features without competitive prejudice. E.g. NFC What this will mean for me as an iPhone user: instead of using Apple Pay which is seamlessly integrated in my phone, watch and desktop OS, I will instead have to use my bank's terrible HTML-based 'app' to perform contactless payments, making it 100 times less convenient. This probably will make me switch back to using my bank card.…

So your bank can have more funding, instead of Apple shaving it off up to 50%, and it is able to develop a neat React-based UI instead of the simple HTML ui you so strongly disdain...

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#852

Post by norman784 »

microtonal wrote: post #213
turbinerneiter wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. This however isn't a reason for the rest of the world to accept this. And since the power in the market is highly concentrated and all of it is moving more and more in this direction, regulation enforces these alternative options now. All this does is regulate the power the provider of a product has over their customer. This does not ruin the walled garden for the…

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. I agree in principle, but I worry that we end up in the situation where if you need to use a particular app, you can only get it from a third-party store that you don't trust. (Something gross like Facebook starting an app store.) Or course, this is mostly a result of Apple being greedy. If they had acted like a good steward of the platform rather than trying to ex…

Don't quote me on this, but there was some discussions early this year about dominant platforms (I didn't read what does cover this Act, but) need to provide API to allow users to use third party alternatives, like Facebook, WhatsApp, iMessage, etc, so you could now have an app like Adium again where you have all your chats. So in theory this will be not an issue.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#853

Post by Gareth321 »

plandis wrote: post #251

One would think that if there is truly a Europe wide market for such an unlocked device a competitor should be able to challenge Apple and Google dominance. Europe could even subsidize it. But instead, it’s more engineering by bureaucrats. Why is Europe so afraid of competing in the open market?

>Why is Europe so afraid of competing in the open market?

The open market employs children to work in coal mines. No one should trust the open market.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#854

Post by shultays »

krageon wrote: post #812
bogwog wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Consoles are computers, just as surely as an iPhone is. I don’t think most people see it that way. Game consoles could be general purpose computers if you changed the operating system, but no one (except maybe PS3 customers) buys a game console expecting to use it for general computing. Likewise, the computer in a Tesla is probably powerful enough to run a full desktop operating system, but it’s clearly not what it…

They are general purpose computers, just like phones. It's purely a software limitation.

My toaster probably have the same cpu as my phone, but limited by its software. Is it a general purpose computer as well?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#856

Post by unity1001 »

mullingitover wrote: post #673
shadowgovt wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly. The other possibility is it will make it impossible to buy an iPhone in Europe. It certainly puts a huge incentive on Apple to figure out technical solutions to problems like "How do we get other browser engines on this thing without compromising a hundred OS assumptions, battery performance, or user security," but it's also possible Apple decides that's a no-go and it'll cost more than 25% of annual revenu…

> That's fine; win-win for the EU market because it clears the playing field for a European-originated competitor to the iPhone. I think that's what the EU is hoping for. Their technology industry completely failed in this space, so for them it makes perfect sense to simply drive competitors out of the market entirely. Worst case for them is that the international competitors actually comply.

Eu's technology industry did not 'fail' in this space. It allowed the US to dominate it due to the long-standing control of the US over NATO and its political-economic consequences. Similar to how the Eu let the US destroy its entire aerospace industry starting from 1960s until recently.

China, India did not allow that. Hence, they already have various competitors in various tech sectors.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#857

Post by unity1001 »

dieortin wrote: post #742
arrosenberg wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For some reason every Linux user assumes everyone is as smart as they are and anyone who doesn't take the time to learn whatever esoteric config file to manage their DE is a child that can't tell left from right. Notably, most of the non-technical users I am acquainted with manage to use Windows, which will also let you install any software package you want if you click continue on the warning.

Yeah, and that goes very well doesn’t it? That’s why users end up with tons of spyware and bloatware. And if they don’t, they might not be as non-technical as you think.

> That’s why users end up with tons of spyware and bloatware

We are not in 2010s. That does not happen. And when that happens, its because the users explicitly chose to do it in order to access certain things.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#858

Post by unity1001 »

dane-pgp wrote: post #133
MichaelCollins wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The apparent desire for paternalism unnerves me. Any time people are free to choose who they associate with, they run the risk of coming across bad actors who would scam them or worse. In most domains of life, we have special protections for the senile elderly and children but everybody else is given freedom and subsequently expected to develop and exercise a sense of good judgement, because freedom is more important…

I absolutely agree with you, but here's a hypothesis worth considering: What if we're building a society that is so complicated that it just isn't feasible for individuals to make informed decisions about important matters any more? Societies have long accepted that things like medical treatments have to be prescribed by an expert, and some societies have even decided that healthy people can be forced to have medical…

> What if we're building a society that is so complicated that it just isn't feasible for individuals to make informed decisions about important matters any more?

That doesn't happen.

WordPress have an open development ecosystem through themes and plugins. It runs up to 50% of all web sites on the planet right now, including many gigantic ones. (various CNN, Reuters services included).

That did not lead to such an environment as you speak. Instead, there materialized many independent theme and plugin developer outfits, rising into prominence just for providing good software and having good reputation. And they have been half of the reason why WordPress now constitutes 50% of all web sites.

Open Source has been similar in general too - various high-reputation outfits dominate each field without curbing choice.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#859

Post by unity1001 »

vlozko wrote: post #104
bloppe wrote: post #81

It blows my mind how many people have bought into Apple's position on this. No, Apple restricting your freedom does not afford you greater security. You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. If you're not confident in your ability to tell shady from legit, just stick to the App Store. Don't demand that Apple treat the rest of us like children just because that's how you would like to be treated.

This is a very myopic view of what it’s like for the elderly and less tech savvy. Most aren’t capable of telling the difference and yet they constantly find themselves unknowingly getting scammed. I take it you’ve never had to clean out a horribly malware infested computer for a mother-in-law before?

The argument betrays itself:

How will that elderly and less tech savvy find and install another app store into their iPhone.

If they are not tech savvy enough to be able to decide something is scammy, they are not tech savvy enough to install a freaking app store in their phone.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#860

Post by unity1001 »

l33t2328 wrote: post #308
bloppe wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is certainly a problem, I don't accept it as an argument for why we all have to be locked in the walled garden. Just add a system setting that controls the walls. Let people disable it if they want, and tell your mother-and-law to never ever disable it no matter what. If you're worried that they'll be tricked into disabling it, then they probably should not be in control of a bank account or anything else…

You don’t have to be locked into a walled garden! You don’t have to buy an iPhone.

Yep. They can just buy Android and get locked into another walled garden.
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