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Mass and angular momentum, left ambiguous by Einstein, get defined

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Re: Mass and angular momentum, left ambiguous by Einstein, get defined

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you not, at least theoretically, create two synchronized clocks and physically transport one of them to another location and then throw a beam of light from the location of the first clock and measure the time of arrival at the second clock? Am I missing something? Edit: What I was missing was time dilation. Physically transporting the clocks would mean that they are no longer synchronized.

But can't you still do it? It just takes a long time to set up. That is: I synchronize two clocks at a particular point. I then move one clock to the other end of the apparatus (which could be multiple kilometers away). Now, there are three "time dilations" that I have to worry about: 1. Gravitational red shift. I can avoid this by having both ends of the experiment, and the path the clock takes to move from one to t…

The problem is probably insoluble in Special Relativity alone*, because of the available clock-synchronization schemes in a universe populated only by the self-contained experimental apparatus (sender + local clock, receiver + local clock), experimental pulse of light, and flashing-light morse code or whatever to compare timestamps. If we are allowed to add more matter of our choosing, we can probably measure the one-way delay with good precision.

The absence of gravitational sources is an aspect of the flat spacetime of Special Relativity, but if we are cheating by adding in (and declaring gravitationally negligible) the experimental apparatus, why can't we cheat by adding in a non-gravitationally evolving bit of matter which can serve as a clock? A low-mass, sparse, spherical, uniform cloud of of hot dust expanding adiabatically can serve as a clock by measuring its and temperature if the one-way-transmitter and one-way-receiver are freely falling within it and moving slowly compared to light. This is essentially a demotion of the sparse cosmic microwave background gas/dust of massless photons -> sparse gas/dust of neutral low-mass molecules. The CMB expands and cools, while we're within it. Our non-relativistic molecular gas expands and cools, while our one-way test equipment is within it.

Of course, what is too much of a cheat in Special Relativity and what is not is debatable. In all the cases above we are ignoring the Raychaudhuri equation with the only justifications being that the timescales are too long to tell if we're focusing, and we aren't obviously engaging post-Newtonian (PN) corrections. (What gets us into trouble with PN formalisms in GR can get us into trouble in gravitation-free SR though: ultraboost one side of the experiment, rather than "... moving the clock slowly with respect to the stationary one". You guessed correctly that boosts and accelerations could be a problem in (2)&(3). However, contra your (3) acceleration is perfectly permissible in "pure" SR and the result is only equivalent to being in a uniform gravitational field (rather than with a potential gradient), and only somewhat briefly (you can rest your clock on an enormous rocky planet for much longer than you can accelerate your clock at ~ 10 g). The time dilation in (3) is Minkowski / Born / von Laue / Einstein 1905-1911 Special Relativistic and not post-1915 General Relativitistic. Your (1) is done for you for free in "pure" SR, since there is no gravitation there.)

General relativity is hardly a panacea: if we have a strongly expanding vacuum our one way pulse might never reach the detector. In a dynamical curved spacetime we can break the symmetry between legs of a reflection 2-way test in any number of ways.

It's really the breaking of the vacuum condition that lets us set up a "global" or at least wide-enough-area clock. When we're allowed to introduce half-life decays or thinning background matter or radiation, or distant millisecond pulsars, we are more likely to be able to use a synchronization scheme sufficiently different from Einstein's method and successfully compare timestamps at the sender and receiver of a one-way flash.

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* If we assume Special Relativity then we already have global Poincaré invariance, so we have already have symmetrical legs of a reflection test. If we have a setting which is maybe Minkowski spacetime, or maybe something other than Minkowski space that breaks the symmetry of the legs in a reflection test, then we probably can't do it with a one-way test along the lines you're thinking.

Re: Mass and angular momentum, left ambiguous by Einstein, get defined

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Veritasium has a nice video about it on YouTube. We can only measure the average back and forth speed of light.

That video was pretty bad, though. It completely ignores everything we know about the CMB. If it were true that the speed of light was different in different directions, the CMB would look very different.

No disagreement on what you write, but the CMB spectrum is about as useless as radiocarbon dating for deciding which of two Hydrogen maser clocks on opposite sides of a university laboratory is wrong when they differ by ten nanoseconds.

However, we can generalize your point and say that real configurations of matter let us make those decisions reasonably and with good accuracy. (The BIPM UTC Circular-T contributors seem to manage fine, as do the various GNSS operators).

If the video had taken care to set their experiment in vacuum flat spacetime (perturbed only by the experiment), as the shown Einstein 1905 work https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/> (top of p. 3) did, it would be better. That's because that setting offers no convenient-to-agree way to slice spacetime into space and time. The CMB does, but we suffer from practical limits on measuring the CMB's blackbody temperature.

Re: Mass and angular momentum, left ambiguous by Einstein, get defined

#123
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is not true? You can't have reference frame independent (which is a term that also includes orientations) Maxwell equations and anisotropic speed of light at the same time. If Maxwell equations are correct (which was already well-tested by then), speed is already the same for forward and backward propagating electromagnetic waves (=light), and there is no other spatial anisotropy either. Differing one-way speed…

You should watch the video. There is no experiment that has been done that shows the speed of light does not have a preference because every measurement sneaks in the assumption it's symmetric. This is a convention. It's called the Einstein synchronization convention. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_synchronisation See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-way_speed_of_light . From the article: "Experiments…

You can call in convention as many times as you want, but unfortunately, it just is not a convention. It is called theory of electrodynamics which is a well established, experimentally verified branch of physics.

What exactly is more subtle and complicated in the context of Maxwell equations? If speed of light has the anisotropy that you are describing, Maxwell equations must be incorrect. In what electromagnetic experiment has such anistropy of magnetic or electric constants have been ever observed?

You're basically saying "you haven't measured the one-way speed of light directly, so you haven't ruled it out the possibility of my exotic theory", but it is actually been ruled out by Maxwell equations a long time ago. Unless you have some experimental proof that Maxwell equations need to be modified to accommodate that elusive version of your aether, you can't claim the existence of such an anisotropy.

Physics is well connected in that you can't change one part of it (in your case, c in the context of special relatively) just because you found something that wasn't experimentally ruled out, and hope the rest of the physics (basically all massless field theories and relevant experimental results in this case) won't break.

Re: Mass and angular momentum, left ambiguous by Einstein, get defined

#124

The most eye-opening thing I've learned about relativity in the past few years is that the notion that space has no preferential direction is an axiom in the theory. There's nothing about the way we measure the speed of light that would disambiguate if light traveled instantaneously in one direction and at half the measured speed of light in the other. We just don't have a way to know, because time measurements requi…

> But it's an axiom. I don't agree. If light traveled instantaneously in one direction, then if we looked in the opposite direction (where such light originates from) we would be seeing stars and galaxies at much more recent time (now). Also, their light would have traveled a much longer distance (due to the ongoing expansion of space) and so would be redshifted much more. All in all what we see on the sky would look…

> Also, their light would have traveled a much longer distance (due to the ongoing expansion of space) and so would be redshifted much more.

I need to correct myself: If light traveled instantaneously, the expansion of space wouldn't matter because in the very instant in which light would be traveling space wouldn't be expanding. -> No redshift at all.

Re: Mass and angular momentum, left ambiguous by Einstein, get defined

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not following and, so far, strongly agree with the parent here (the fact that Veritasium didn't mention the CMB a single time really surprised me when I watched the video for the first time). Why wouldn't we be able to measure the differences in the CMB, depending on the direction? What do you mean by "linear flow"?

The CMB is assumed to be what it is stated to be. If you look at the various theoretical predictions for the CMB, you will see that the theoretical predictions have been quite inaccurate. In absolute magnitude, the temperature that would be expected is quite small. However, the error in those predictions relative to each other is quite high (way too high, if I recall correctly this error is on the order of +/- 50%).…

I'm still not following. If the speed of light in one direction was infinite, there would not be any redshift nor any microwave background coming from that direction[0] to begin with. The photons from recombination time would have long passed us.

Of course, this assumes that the universe is isotropic and what not. But again[1], the alternative would be a fine-tuning conspiracy of cosmological scale.

[0]: More precisely, from the opposite direction.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32111588

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