Live data from Hacker News

Gitlab and remote work

about.gitlab.com

131–140 of 214 posts

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#131
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You aren't being paid based on what your labor is earning your company. I've managed P&L at multiple companies. Salaries are inevitably influenced by cash flow projections and revenues, and are absolutely aligned in multiple dimensions to revenues. > cost of living shouldn't matter and maybe pay everyone $110k No, they're going to pay whatever their margins can tolerate while competing for labor. If Google can mana…

>I've managed P&L at multiple companies. Salaries are inevitably influenced by cash flow projections and revenues, and are absolutely aligned in multiple dimensions to revenues. How mature were those companies? Did they have investors willing to accept extended periods of time without profit like many VC and Wall Street investors have come to accept from many tech companies? Did increases in cash flow or revenue lead…

> How mature were those companies?

Early stage to public, all VC-backed.

> Did increases in cash flow or revenue lead to across the board raises?

That doesn't happen anywhere, unless a board member recommends it or you have a very generous CEO (like Gravity Payments). Either an employee asks for a raise, or a manager fights for one using new hires/open req salaries as negotiating leverage. Turnover is part of life, and if no one is fighting for you then you're expected to fight for yourself.

> Or did cash flow and revenue exist purely as a cap on salaries?

G&A is a huge chunk of expenses for most companies, and after a few years of operating you'll have reasonable historical data combined with future financial projections to figure out where you want that G&A % to hover around. This is what determines salary caps, as your leadership team juggles figuring out whom they need to hire to hit those projections and how much they can pay in the given market to find the talent they need/want.

For an e-comm business that might be 30-35% of total expenses. For SaaS, could be as high as 70%.

So your leadership agrees on some growth plan, and the CEO hits the button on hiring X new heads with a combined Z salary cap. What ends up happening is that you max out Z by X-N new hires, and the CEO has to decide to spend more to reach X hires or tell teams to make due with the headcount they have while reminding them to "hire faster next time".

Over a long enough period of time, the executive and finance teams will implicitly agree on some tolerance that G&A needs to stay within, and the company will be managed and decisions will be made to make sure those commitments are made. We've probably all seen this as sudden hiring freezes or lay-offs, when either current results or projections show that some target isn't going to be met but that tweaking these other numbers (headcount, payroll) the company can keep the first number (costs as % of revenues) consistent.

Over an even longer period of times, those salary bands will ossify into comp levels like "SDE 5" or some-such and this becomes the aggregate in which salary is managed.

So for a company like Google that has its finances literally down to a science, which is already operating multi-year roadmaps with high salaries baked into every assumption and model and even the stock price, would not want to rock the boat of missing those targets by tweaking something that could cause more harm than good. It's not worth it to them.

Keep in mind that Google's margin are still healthy even after salaries have skyrocketed since they were discovered colluding with other companies to artificially keep salaries low.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#132
post #89

I appreciate a lot of what Gitlab has done, but as someone who has been permanently remote for nearly a decade, I don't really consider them to be a leader in remote work. One of my biggest issues with Gitlab is that they pay based on locality, many other fully remote companies pay below Bay Area salaries, but they pay flat globally, meaning you can be location-independent without a pay-cut and it helps to bring in h…

I don't really understand appealing to the concept of "fair" regarding salary. I guess I'm showing some assumptions about labor being a free market, but isn't your salary by definition acceptable to both you and the employer?

And that's one big reason why I'll never apply to Gitlab!

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#133
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not cutting someone's pay when they move is very different to hiring someone in Thailand on a Bay Area salary.

Why? If both do the same work in the same location, why would one get more than the other. Either you don't adjust the pay when they move because you are already paying everyone an equal salary. Or you adjust it and pay everyone a local salary. Gitlab does the latter.

Gitlab just outsources development. It’s that simple.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#134
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I heard they were which makes them NOT a leader in remote work lol They underpay in general which is why their product is buggy

> They underpay in general which is why their product is buggy I understand the sentiment but I am not convinced that underpay is the cause of buggyness. They compete with a behemoth and it is quite a feat to stay in the game in spite of having a fraction of resources at their disposal compared to thier completion.

My gut feeling is that "a higher salary will make me care more" is one of things that is such common sense that the silent majority doesn't even feel like it needs to be pointed out. I find it difficult to be convinced of the contrary every time someone thinks they have a survey that says otherwise.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#135
post #26
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the problem with that? If Gitlab is not paying top of the market salaries, then they're just going to miss out on top talent, and clearly they're fine with it. It's a free market after all, you don't have to join Gitlab.

From what I've seen the usual points of critique were/are: * "This person does the exact same work, obviously they need to be paid 30% more than you because they could afford to move close to an expensive city before applying" doesn't sound exactly fair * "We'll value your work less financially if you move somewhere cheaper (not the other way around though)" isn't particularly great * The message(s) of "You can work…

> At least when it was public

Thank you, I was thinking I imagined that that existed.

Backpedaling on transparency is the antithesis of leadership.

Is there a word for that? Sabotage? Maybe too dramatic, but if we're going to toss around terms like "world leader" maybe it's not.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#136
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would you consider to be operationally and culturally superior in regards to remote work than Gitlab? Asking sincerely, because Gitlab is one of the first brands I think of when people mention "remote first culture".

Kraken has a few thousand employees, has been a remote first company for a decade, and pays the same no matter where you live.

Damn! You just made me spit out my drink!

That's as flimsy a strawman as you could find.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locally-adjusted pay is a fluke if revenues are not locally constrained (like a coffee shop). It's just another way employers try and nickle and dime workers, and it's sad that a large class of workers have been brainwashed to support it because somehow they're more upset at the other workers making more, than the company trying to pull a fast on on them. "But you would make so much more than your neighbors!". Fuck o…

Actually senior management takes this into account — they’d only be making 3 million if they lived in Fremont but since they live in Malibu they get $30 million plus a stipend for their SF penthouse.

How does HN have such ridiculous ideas of what other people are making? I had someone yesterday tell me that a mid-level marketing role at Stripe was pulling in 3-5M per year, and probably made 20M over their four years there.

An SVP is pulling down a base of $300-600k, and stock comp (option grants & RSU's) may be doubling or even tripling that but very few are getting 10-100x base. Maybe C-levels, but even then I'd wager more people can fit in a Boeing 777 than are seeing packages like that.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#138
Gitlab is a big name with a big headcount and a big… I don’t want to sound rude here, but a big ego, too.

What does my org use it for? A git repository to which we can push and pull, CI, and code review. I constantly feel like I’m missing a party of awesome features and stuff and I feel that way because what Gitlab does for me compared with the perception it projects into the world seem different by several orders of magnitude. What are all these amazing features they are building, which require such a huge team, that I’m missing? I don’t want ACLs. I don’t need per project visibility. We already have task tracking and a wiki. Will Gitlab offer to run my payroll, when I already have software to do that? Is there a calendar app and have they built their own date selector widgets? Those are shark jumping moments for any project so I hope it’s not that bad.

Gitlab feels a bit like a microwave oven that has a popcorn mode, alarm clock, and built in calculator when all I want is X hundred watts for Y seconds.

Ps: poking around their sales site, Gitlab is going after Jira, I guess. Oof.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#139
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've managed P&L at multiple companies. Salaries are inevitably influenced by cash flow projections and revenues, and are absolutely aligned in multiple dimensions to revenues. How mature were those companies? Did they have investors willing to accept extended periods of time without profit like many VC and Wall Street investors have come to accept from many tech companies? Did increases in cash flow or revenue lead…

> How mature were those companies? Early stage to public, all VC-backed. > Did increases in cash flow or revenue lead to across the board raises? That doesn't happen anywhere, unless a board member recommends it or you have a very generous CEO (like Gravity Payments). Either an employee asks for a raise, or a manager fights for one using new hires/open req salaries as negotiating leverage. Turnover is part of life, a…

You are basing your logic on conflicting assumptions. First you say that you need "a very generous CEO" to raise salaries as revenues increase, but that isn't just a requirement to get a raise. That is also a requirement to get hired at a higher than market rate. Why would Google hire a developer in the Bay Area when they can have 3 in Akron or a whole team in India? Why are you assuming that just because Google has "high salaries baked into every assumption and model" that they won't go "tweaking these other numbers" as soon as "projections show that some target isn't going to be met"?

Paying everyone the same regardless of their location means that people in the highest cost areas need to compete on salary with people in the lowest cost areas. People in the low cost locations outnumber people in the high cost areas so it will be a race to the bottom. Google isn't going to pay everyone Bay Area salaries. They will pay everyone as little as possible to still reach their target headcount/production.

Re: Gitlab and remote work

#140
post #19

Their pay was abysmally low last time I applied. The company seems cool but the salaries as a senior were honestly kind of silly in this market.

Then you missed the biggest advantage of remote only: they can hire from any market.

Evidently not. Can't hire in a market where your offers aren't competitive.
Post reply on HN