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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#731

Post by rad_gruchalski »

dane-pgp wrote: post #579
switch007 wrote: post #171

Hopefully this goes better than GDPR. The only outcome I’ve seen is all my friends and family clicking “I accept” to explicitly allow tracking. Remember how we were praising GDPR and the level of fines etc…

If sites actually obeyed the GDPR (i.e. if national governments actually devoted enough resources to enforcing it) then all those banners would have a "Reject" button that is just as clickable as the "Accept" one. Hopefully your friends and family haven't become so trained to look for the word "accept" that they will be unable to find the correct button when companies finally start complying. Or better yet, companies…

> dane-pgp 4 hours ago | parent | next [–]

If sites actually obeyed the GDPR (i.e. if national governments actually devoted enough resources to enforcing it) then all those banners would have a "Reject" button that is just as clickable as the "Accept" one.

Yeah, but there isn’t. There is no incentive, or a stick, to make them comply. It’s a dumb regulation. The regulator doesn’t care to enforce and has no resources to enforce.

It’s obvious that people who benefit from tracking will do anything to make people click that accept button. It’s obvious that they will also make it as obnoxious as possible to reject. It was clear from the beginning.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#732

Post by pmcollins »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #414

I do wish iPhones could use alternate browser engines and bypass the Apple 30% cut, but the fact I'm having to click through one of those stupid cookie dialogs on this page just leaves the bad taste in my mouth of how much the EU regulation screwed up the internet the last time they made a change like this. Not saying I want tracking cookies everywhere, but they should have just made tracking cookies illegal outright…

the cookie law should have ended up with a browser setting. but eu bureaucrats apparently don’t know the first thing about web standards (and why would they) so we get every single website in the world having to code a custom dialog, and billions of users having to click through them forever. this legislation is the eu cookie law writ large: well meaning, ill conceived, government overreach by bureaucrats who don’t represent or understand the companies being affected. it’s a sad state of affairs when the most significant contribution of europe to technology is not technology, but bad legislation with massive global implications.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#734

Post by newaccount74 »

fbanon wrote: post #192

What HackerNews thinks will happen: "zomg, I will finally be able to run Arch on my iPhone!" What will actually happen: "honey, something is wrong with my phone, whenever I unlock it, a popup jumps up that says 'Please update the Adobe™ Updater™ to get up to date Adobe™ Software Updates', could you take a look at it?"

The security on iPhone comes from the app sandbox, not from App Store review. There are lots of scam apps on the App Store, despite Apple's review.

Apps from 3rd party stores will be sandboxed just like apps from the App Store are today.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#735

Post by mortenjorck »

withinboredom wrote: post #617
slaymaker1907 wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think six months is a pretty unreasonable time frame for Apple. While the security concerns around this sort of thing are often overblown, Apple will need to rework their security model for the iPhone. If there is an API surface between the OS and the App Store, they may need to rework it since it's not been designed with third party stores in mind.

The writing has been on the wall for years. Sounds like a problem of their own creation.

The funny thing is, Apple originally had plans for sideloading all the way back in 2008. An email that came out from the Apple vs. Epic trial last year had none other than Steve Jobs signing off on UI copy for installing apps from outside the App Store! [1]

Obviously, those plans were shelved when they changed strategy for iOS to walled-garden, but it's surprising how in the course of fourteen years the issue went from product roadmap to cultural anathema at Apple.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/c/22611236/epic-v-apple-emails-proj...

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#736

Post by roamerz »

This is not good. I really enjoy the security of the walled garden that IOS is right now. Some say just don’t install a third party app store. My line of thinking is that takes the power away from the individual. Lets take for instance an app that everyone seems to want: TikTok. Right now they must abide by the app store rules and do security the way Apple requires and I want. This is the ONLY way they get onto the most popular mobile platform. Now with this decision from the EU they can stop offering it in the Apple app store and offer something less secure from a 3rd party app store. The user is now forced to make a security concession in order to use that app now. I no longer have a big bully (Apple) standing by my side forcing the issue. I’d say to Apple just stop selling to the EU. See how long it takes them to blink because they would.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#737

Post by drexlspivey »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #200
brtkdotse wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a popular opinion around here, but the reason I like my iPhone is _because_ it’s a walled garden. It just works, reliably, without surprises, for years on end.

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. This however isn't a reason for the rest of the world to accept this. And since the power in the market is highly concentrated and all of it is moving more and more in this direction, regulation enforces these alternative options now. All this does is regulate the power the provider of a product has over their customer. This does not ruin the walled garden for the…

Just wait till Facebook forces you to download their app from the alternative app store with all their tracking crap up to 11

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#738

Post by Zak »

drexlspivey wrote: post #737
turbinerneiter wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. This however isn't a reason for the rest of the world to accept this. And since the power in the market is highly concentrated and all of it is moving more and more in this direction, regulation enforces these alternative options now. All this does is regulate the power the provider of a product has over their customer. This does not ruin the walled garden for the…

Just wait till Facebook forces you to download their app from the alternative app store with all their tracking crap up to 11

I imagine they'd like to do that, but they wouldn't like users to use the website instead, and they really wouldn't like users to use Facebook less.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#739

Post by jitix »

brtkdotse wrote: post #185
yoavm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, an iPhone that complies with these demands is actually the first iPhone I'd ever consider paying for. I wonder if this might actually increase adoption.

It’s not a popular opinion around here, but the reason I like my iPhone is _because_ it’s a walled garden. It just works, reliably, without surprises, for years on end.

I agree 100%. While I personally would love all these features as a tinkerer, I'm afraid my retiree parents are gonna click on malicious links and install malware. Because this is what they fall for on Windows and Android.

Then the solution will be to use anti viruses and other software, which will make the ecosystem even more exploitative (imagine the likes of Norton and Avast on your phone).

I believe the best solution is giving the user a choice of the OS. Like go to a store, select phone hardware, select OS and pay. Once you're on an OS you play by the OS' rules. Like for android you could choose vanilla, Samsung distro, Mi distro, etc. Similarly iOS could be available on Pixel hardware, etc.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#740

Post by erichocean »

dane-pgp wrote: post #133
MichaelCollins wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The apparent desire for paternalism unnerves me. Any time people are free to choose who they associate with, they run the risk of coming across bad actors who would scam them or worse. In most domains of life, we have special protections for the senile elderly and children but everybody else is given freedom and subsequently expected to develop and exercise a sense of good judgement, because freedom is more important…

I absolutely agree with you, but here's a hypothesis worth considering: What if we're building a society that is so complicated that it just isn't feasible for individuals to make informed decisions about important matters any more? Societies have long accepted that things like medical treatments have to be prescribed by an expert, and some societies have even decided that healthy people can be forced to have medical…

> What if we're building a society that is so complicated that it just isn't feasible for individuals to make informed decisions about important matters any more?

RIP Democracy.

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