Live data from Hacker News

Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

science.org

351–360 of 445 posts

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#351
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These panel surveys are reasonably good. The better pollsters (like Ipsos MORI) spend a decent amount of effort recruiting a broad sample of people for their panels, and results are statistically adjusted for non-response bias etc. That said, the usual problem with political polling (that you can only poll people willing to answer pollsters' questions) applies extra here, as all respondents have agreed to be part of…

>and results are statistically adjusted for non-response bias etc. ...Can you explain this? My brain translates that to "We fudge the numbers because we know dome portion of them are being deceptive." I'm pretty sure that isn't what that's supposed to mean is it?

That sounds like they have a model of population demographics and try to “correct” their sample for various biases that effect likelihood of reaching and getting a response from people by reweighting the actual sample to match the expected demographics.

If actual views on the target issues are predicted well by demographics and independent of the response biases beyond their correlation with the demographics, this should work well.

If they aren't, though, this potentially magnifies the impact on the overall result of subsamples that are potentially most unreliable because of small size.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#352
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't 60% of the population of Texas expected a civil war soon for the last 100 years? And what are those rebel flags all about? It's posturing. Just like all of those surveys that say 50% of tech workers anticipate quitting this year. Nearly all the places that talk about secession are the same states that generate less federal tax revenue than they spend. Which is both why it would be a terrible idea, and why peop…

the whole secession thing blows me away. I live in Texas and had a couple friends who were on that bandwagon. I asked them had they thought about going toe to toe with the US Marines while bombers are over Austin and drones over everywhere else. All i got back was silence. The union will be preserved at any cost, there's precedent for that. No state will secede without defeating the US military first.

Having grown up in TX and having gone through the required Texas propaganda (only state flag allowed to fly at same height as US flag etc) history courses in school, I can understand the fantasy of a by-gone era. A few people really take it to heart though.

Texas has a bit of a unique history compared to other states, it was it's own country at one point and they made sure that we learned it, even in US history courses. Part of what makes the idea realistic is that the state could support itself, if it had too. There are major air & sea ports/trade, energy, food, defense, medical, technology, research, etc. While it seceded from the union, it really didnt do much in the civil war - but the most telling is that it still went with being a part of other states instead of becoming a Republic again. The idea of being an independent country is more of having this mental place to escape too when things are not going their (currently republican) way. The 180 the state did from its heighten Independents/secession rhetoric during Obama to going full-on Trumpism kowtowing is dizzying.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#353
post #76

Puh-leaze. Have you seen TickTok? Half of my fellow American's can't answer what the capital of the US is, what two countries border us, and how many stars there are on the flag. I wish I was kidding. We've raised and trained the next generation to feel very strongly about many things, understand very little and believe they can define what "truth" is instead of discovering it.

[deleted]

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#355
post #253
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These panel surveys are reasonably good. The better pollsters (like Ipsos MORI) spend a decent amount of effort recruiting a broad sample of people for their panels, and results are statistically adjusted for non-response bias etc. That said, the usual problem with political polling (that you can only poll people willing to answer pollsters' questions) applies extra here, as all respondents have agreed to be part of…

I don’t personally expect a US civil war in the next decade, but I think we are much closer to that point than is safe. What’s really concerning is IMO the odds have been getting worse over time and nobody seems to be trying to calm things down. Gerrymandering for example is extremely beneficial for elites in both political parties, but increasingly corrodes peoples faith in the system. It’s the perfect example of pe…

It's also an unfortunate consequence of game theory. If one party Gerrymanders and the other does not, that party will solidify their hold over the House tighter and tighter. They'll also solidify their grip on the states (who run the elections, and who set the rules on who can vote and when they can vote). Trying to play nice and believe in the system is a recipe for being eradicated - it's exactly what's happened to the Democrats for the last 20 years.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that if a mob pressures the Senate into accepting a slate of "alternate electors", and that swings the Electoral College vote, there will be a very short period of time in which this could be shut down short of a civil war. For some lesser cause? Another murder of an unarmed black person, even by police, seems unlikely to cause it. Economic inequality? Doesn't look like it. Illegal aliens? Again, prob…

> mob pressures the Senate into accepting a slate of "alternate electors" That would have to be one hell of a mob. How would they exert pressure? Unless their "pressure" is lawful then they'd just be arrested like the Jan 6 people.

The mob of January 6 was close to enough. If an equivalent mob brought weapons (or was willing to use the weapons they had), and if the authorties' response was equally ineffective and delayed, that sized mob might be enough. Ten times that size would almost certainly be enough.

How many Senators are willing to die for the Electoral College vote? How many are willing to do so after they just saw several other Senators shot dead in front of them?

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#357

Whenever I read this trash I wonder who is pushing the narrative. Is this writer even an American? What does he have to gain by fomenting a narrative that Americans want to go to war? Who's in his back pocket? Americans need to wisen the fuck up that so much of this "America divisive, we disagree so much, civil war coming" is manufactured. Especially in the age of GPT-3 where it can be as simple as telling an AI bot…

As an American citizen who listens to talk radio on roadtrips, I've thought that we were headed towards a civil war as early as Obama's presidency. I largely kept that prediction to myself, but it turns out that a lot of Americans feel that way or even want it to happen. My prediction was largely based on the language that radio hosts and call-ins were using to describe their elected leadership and their fellow citizens. It's gotten worse. Elected politicians are openly talking about civil war. Candidates are talking about hunting their opposition. If you think this narrative is being "pushed" you need to expand your sources of information.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#358
post #357

Whenever I read this trash I wonder who is pushing the narrative. Is this writer even an American? What does he have to gain by fomenting a narrative that Americans want to go to war? Who's in his back pocket? Americans need to wisen the fuck up that so much of this "America divisive, we disagree so much, civil war coming" is manufactured. Especially in the age of GPT-3 where it can be as simple as telling an AI bot…

As an American citizen who listens to talk radio on roadtrips, I've thought that we were headed towards a civil war as early as Obama's presidency. I largely kept that prediction to myself, but it turns out that a lot of Americans feel that way or even want it to happen. My prediction was largely based on the language that radio hosts and call-ins were using to describe their elected leadership and their fellow citiz…

After 9/11, when mass violence happened on American soil and the cultural atmosphere became one that was paranoid for safety and ready to fight, exacerbated by the divisive War in Iraq, all bets were off.

Not to mention 2000 was also the presidential election that would throw all future elections into doubt.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#359

Maybe mail in voting wasn't such a great idea, when so many people don't trust the results. In person voting, paper ballot, simplest and most transparent.

It's not quite that simple. It goes back more than one election, at least back to the supposed Russia-Trump scandals (Steele dossier, etc.). Basically this happened:

- There was once a time when most every American believed that anyone could be elected President, then the following happened:

- Donald Trump was nominated for the Presidency,

- Prior to the election, branches of the federal government began investigating candidate Donald Trump(and everyone around him) for what?? - Anything and everything! False and misleading information was released to a press that was largely hostile.

- Donald Trump won the Presidency after a close election. The transition was difficult. Many in the federal bureaucracy opposed his incumbency. He and his continued to be under investigation as before, even though nothing tangible came of these investigations. Nonetheless Trump took to the office surprisingly well. The press continued their hostility.

The common man now saw that, while not anyone could become President, at least most any person could become President, but that person would have to have a very thick skin and be very rich b/c it was clear that, for the Swamp, the Press and the Democratic Party, a war on Trump had been declared. The common man felt a sharp twinge of unfairness to his very bones.

- After 4 years another hot election campaign was fought. Trump et al were still under investigation with promises of indictments daily. Democratic opposition leaders in Congress used their only significant tool, investigative committees, to question every move and more of the sitting President, his lawyers, friends and past friends. Meanwhile Democratic majorities in various states were modifying election laws to be more lax and lower scrutiny. This was noticed by even the Press.

- Joe Biden won the election by the slimmest of margins. Had it rained in a few states more the election could have gone the other way. such is the nature of politics in the USA. Federal agencies and Congressional committees continued their investigations of Trump et al, the Press continued to harass, and bureaucracies continued to balk at the reins.

- As the scales fell off his eyes, Donald Trump saw the incredible viciousness of politics in a free democracy. Being who he is, he fought with every tool he had to continue his Presidency, pursuing even the slimmest of options for hope. Judging from his competitive background in business, I would expect no less in politics. But it was for naught. He stepped down.

Today, 4 years after he left office, federal agencies continue to investigate Trump et al, as do Congressional committees. The Press continues to publish every lie and rumor, never looking back to consider that nothing substantial had ever been uncovered. Do you see a pattern here?

Common man sees his myths broken, sees that a fellow man, even one who is wealthy, cannot be President of the USA unless something changes. What must be done?

If voting margins are so close then the sanctity of the vote must be guaranteed. Ergo, moves to reduce/eliminate fraud.

If bureaucracies are reaching into the political realm for poltical reasons then they must be more closely monitored. Some may need to be eliminated, purged or reorganized.

If the Press has become captive to one party or one candidate, measures must be taken. Here I'm talking about FAANG as well as the usual Press.

Re: Half of Americans anticipate a U.S. civil war soon

#360
Not soon but at the pace the country is going you'll see states with 99% of its people with identical views. After that, things will get sour really, I mean really quick.

People don't want to discuss or make any compromise whatsoever. Either my way or the highway.

Say whatever you want but this behavior is more in line with the left than the right.

Post reply on HN