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In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

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Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#141

Post by qwezxcrty »

treis wrote: post #121
woodruffw wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advantages to streetcars aren't limited to what I suggest. They also include noise and air quality advantages (hooking up to municipal power sources instead of carrying their own engines), human advantages (they tend to be more comfortable than buses, both because of road quality and size), capacity, and so forth. There are many, many situations where buses (ideally, electrified ones) are the right choice. But th…

>hooking up to municipal power sources instead of carrying their own engines You can do that with a bus >they tend to be more comfortable than buses, both because of road quality and size (1) You can make bigger buses if you want (2) There's little difference in a streetcar on a track and a bus on a flat road. And it's a lot cheaper to get flat roads than to lay track

>make bigger buses

Nontrivial after adding the second deck (common in UK & Hong Kong), or an articulation (common in EU and mainland China) However for tram, the upper limit is your platform length. It's also common to run single trains off-peak, couple two together during busy hours to double the capacity.

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#142

Post by amanaplanacanal »

woodruffw wrote: post #75
Symmetry wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Streetcars, combining the routing inflexibility of trains with the vulnerability to traffic of busses. We could have saved them if we'd banned cars from city centers and you can argue that if you want to but it wasn't GM that did them in.

"Vulnerability to traffic" can be alternately expressed as "right of way violated by individual cars." The history of the decline of streetcars in the US is the history of automotive companies convincing the public that cars take priority over all other forms of transportation, consequences for the commons be damned.

The same reason they invented the crime of “jaywalking”.

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#143

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

Originami wrote: post #140
helloooooooo wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of strategy must be combined with changing the ways cities are built. Your last point about the single mom, this SHOULDNT be a problem. At all. How did people 100 years ago deal with not having access to food without a time consuming trip? They either grew their own, or they lived close enough to a place where they could buy it. The private automobile completely killed the idea of living close to what you n…

100 years ago there were no single moms. Unmarried births have increased from 19% in 1950 to 72% in 2010 for Africa-American women: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/files/2014/12/e... Largely due to the expansion of the welfare state which encourages single motherhood.

Also, 110 years ago, most people in America did not live in cities

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#144

Post by mcspiff »

woodruffw wrote: post #124
mcspiff wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve lived in 3 Canadian cities and 1 major US city. Regularly used public transit in all of them. Used transit around both Canada and the US as a tourist, plus a few locations in Europe, Australia. For any location where I was using it for more than a week I’ve encountered something unpleasant. Various degrees and extremes, but in my experience (not OP) it certainly seems to be intrinsic to public transit. Some of t…

To be fair: I've seen plenty of unpleasant things on public transport. Subways, in particular, are a different world from public buses in NYC. When I think about these things, I interrogate my frame of reference. At least for the US, the most appropriate contrast is the road trips I've taken, during which I saw no shortage of drunk drivers and general mishegaas at gas stations and rest stops.

Totally agree. But to run with your frame of reference point if I may, it’s also important to look at those events from other’s POV. I’m a larger, older man. What I find mildly uncomfortable on a late night bus alone might feel absolutely dangerous for my wife. Or someone with disabilities, etc.

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#145

Post by mcspiff »

marssaxman wrote: post #86
fennecfoxen wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Public transit that is not subway on rails suck big time. Bus Rapid Transit called. It promised 95% of the raw speed and 4x the service frequency at 25% of the cost.

Bus Rapid Transit calls when you are proposing a subway or a tram, promising great things at a low price. After you agree to settle for a shinier bus line instead of the nice, fast, reliable transit system you originally wanted, the value engineers get to work compromising the design, and you end up with... another bus route. Maybe it has a different color of paint this time.

Both Seattle, WA and Ottawa, ON built out dedicated BRT infrastructure that was later repurposed for light rail. So I wouldn’t say it’s always just a new coat of paint.

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#146

Post by ZeroGravitas »

These make good partners for bus systems that run lots of busses during rush hours but become infrequent or nonexistent at night and weekends.

Including a few free rides on this service with a season ticket for a bus makes it much easier for people to go carless.

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#147

Post by marcosdumay »

woodruffw wrote: post #44
whatever1 wrote: post #37

Public transit that is not subway on rails suck big time. I have wasted thousands of hours waiting for the bus that either came early, or is late, under 100 degrees of sun and under snowstorms. Add to that the I have walked thousands of miles because the bus stops do not align with my destinations. Since I got a car and live in the suburbs, I pay much lower housing costs, I start exactly 20’ before my punch in time,…

Public bus systems can be good; most cities and municipalities simply don't bother to make it so (because "polite society" drives everywhere). NYC's buses have their own flaws, but they demonstrate many of the necessary conditions for success: dedicated bus lanes, split-service (local and express on the same route, with corresponding bus sizes), and multimodal connections (light rail, streetcars, subways). This is al…

> because "polite society" drives everywhere

In other words, because they are currently bad.

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#149

Post by simonsarris »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #98
whatever1 wrote: post #37

Public transit that is not subway on rails suck big time. I have wasted thousands of hours waiting for the bus that either came early, or is late, under 100 degrees of sun and under snowstorms. Add to that the I have walked thousands of miles because the bus stops do not align with my destinations. Since I got a car and live in the suburbs, I pay much lower housing costs, I start exactly 20’ before my punch in time,…

> a 2mile commute can last easily 45 minutes. at 10mph average, which includes stops, I doubt a 2 mile commute could take 45 minutes. It should take... 12 minutes. Let's call it 15. > I have walked thousands of miles because the bus stops do not align with my destinations. It's probably good for your health. Seriously, now: I get your point. The > under 100 degrees of sun and under snowstorms is the worst part, I gue…

> I doubt a 2 mile commute could take 45 minutes. It should take... 12 minutes. Let's call it 15.

We can look this up. For instance, going from somewhere random in Tribeca to a random bar 2 miles away is a 42 minute walk or a 37-42 minute bus ride (with 1 change, with busses running every 15 minutes). This is a good example of a failure mode if the bus doesn't go exactly where you want it to.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/''/40.7237156,-73.9777888/@4...

What if you do a perfect straight line single bus for 2 miles from Tribeca it's still 24 minutes, with busses every 15 minutes, so between 24-39 minutes.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/''/40.7437799,-73.9917792/@4...

The subway option is much faster (original comment is comparing busses to subways)

Re: In microtransit, passengers order a shuttle van instead of having to take a bus

#150

Post by woodruffw »

mcspiff wrote: post #144
woodruffw wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair: I've seen plenty of unpleasant things on public transport. Subways, in particular, are a different world from public buses in NYC. When I think about these things, I interrogate my frame of reference. At least for the US, the most appropriate contrast is the road trips I've taken, during which I saw no shortage of drunk drivers and general mishegaas at gas stations and rest stops.

Totally agree. But to run with your frame of reference point if I may, it’s also important to look at those events from other’s POV. I’m a larger, older man. What I find mildly uncomfortable on a late night bus alone might feel absolutely dangerous for my wife. Or someone with disabilities, etc.

Yeah, that's a great point, and a source of bias. On top of that, it would be a real contortion for me to claim that NYC's public transit is even remotely accommodating to people with disabilities.
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