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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#511

Post by drampelt »

kccqzy wrote: post #508
drampelt wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an Android phone and have every single one of my credit and debit cards from 7 different banks in Google Pay. Don't need to use the bank app for any of them. EDIT: to be clear, currently on Android any app can handle NFC payments, not just Google Pay. Banks could easily force people to user their apps, but that's not happening.

A possible consequence of the current legislation is that instead of a system-wide service where Apple Pay or Google Pay can work with different banks, each bank now demands to handle NFC payments within its own app. You may find that Google Pay is no longer supported by banks.

Sorry if it wasn't clear, that was actually my point - on Android even though banks have the ability to handle NFC payments within their own apps, the vast majority still support Google Pay and don't force you to use their app.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#512

Post by pb7 »

plandis wrote: post #251

One would think that if there is truly a Europe wide market for such an unlocked device a competitor should be able to challenge Apple and Google dominance. Europe could even subsidize it. But instead, it’s more engineering by bureaucrats. Why is Europe so afraid of competing in the open market?

No post body was provided.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#513

Post by rtsil »

LeanderK wrote: post #361
sfe22 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

I very much welcome this legislation (and I use an iPhone). How would you approach this otherwise? The EU probably can't break up Google or Apple (how would this even look like?) and the walled gardens are clearly a market failure, including apples fat margins. You mention details, but regulation can be well made and just continuing the status quo is also bad. All regulations open up questions but it's not the wild w…

> The EU probably can't break up Google or Apple

The default remedy isn't break up, it's 10% of the total worldwide turnover (20% for repeat offenders). The EU can very much fine Google or Apple (and already did so).

If break-up is not possible, retricting or prohibiting access to the EU market is quite possible.

Edit: also, on my dealings with Google, I am contracting with Google Ireland Limited, a company that the EU can break up.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#514

Post by drampelt »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #482
thunkshift1 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is forcing you too do that. But they are forcing apple to give anyone using apple devices the option to use the banks shitty ui app. Maybe the ui app will stop being shitty as the usage goes up? That is the point

> No one is forcing you too do that. The bank will by discontinuing Apple Pay support. They have every incentive to do so.

Then why isn't that happening on Android with Google Pay? Banks are able to handle NFC payments through their own apps if they want, but the vast majority support Google Pay and don't force users into their own app.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#515

Post by Apocryphon »

from wrote: post #507
notanormalnerd wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is not "one market". There is free movement of good, services, money and people. But it is still 28 similar markets with different cultures, different languages, different bureaucracies and sometimes different currency. It is 400 million people but comparing the EU to the US is wrong on so many levels. Also calling the US an "open" market is like saying China is a "free" democracy. "One would think that if…

Quoted post unavailable.

The U.S. itself is also pursuing tech antitrust. This is a global phenomenon.

https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/40669/apple-faces-us-an...

https://macdailynews.com/2022/07/19/facing-stalemate-backers...

https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/antitrust-vetera...

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#516

Post by runako »

Vespasian wrote: post #501
runako wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Make core messaging functionality interoperable. They lay out concrete examples like file transfer It's entirely possible that to enable compliance with this will require explicit compromises to the security of iMessage, for example by requiring key exchange with startup messaging providers. The other rules seem to prohibit Apple from describing the risks involved in such a compromise. > * Use existing hardware a…

Apple: it's impossible because of the encryption Regulator: what are the others using? Apple: something very similar but slightly different Regulator: and it's impossible to develop an open standard thet allows p2p encryption to be maintained? Apple: Yes obviously in this specific field of technology that's not possible at all. (Not the) Regulator: Sounds legit

This facile response ignores that Apple Messages is a system, not just an encryption algorithm. Of particular concern is key management: who manages the keys that allow the messages to be decrypted? Currently, it's Apple.

What this Act says is that Apple Messages must interop with any other messaging system. If you spin up a VM running an iMessage-compatible server on Hetzner, Apple Messages must interop with you and cannot privilege Messages (e.g. by continuing to use blue bubbles as a differentiator). That VM may be malicious (for ex: it may log who communicated with whom when), but the Act still requires that it be placed on an even footing with Messages.

Similarly, the Act essentially says that once implemented, anyone using a phone can unintentionally be sending all of their messages to Facebook Messenger, which by law must have seamless interop with Messages. Any group chat could be logged by Facebook by virtue of one person in the chat choosing Facebook Messenger as their default messaging app.

This requirement materially changes the security posture of a billion devices currently in use. You may believe the tradeoff is worthwhile, but it's still not a free tradeoff.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#517

Post by arghwhat »

rizza wrote: post #323
arghwhat wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as an average iPhone user, no. The reliability is mediocre. Keyboard crashing, UI glitching and having wrong dimensions/inoperable sections, occasionally deciding that minimum brightness is the only allowed value and being entirely unresponsive to the brightness slider, some days using waaaay more battery with no battery accounting, sometimes requiring a reboot to use a Qi charger, occasionally freezing and dro…

This sounds like you have a hardware or software issue on your phone. make a backup (if you aren't using icloud backups already) and then make a genius bar appt. and see if they can fix this. I have never seen that level of glitchy-ness on an iphone without there being a serious issue. either on my own phones or during nearing a decade in IT.

Yes, I have a hardware and a software issue: the root cause is that it's an iPhone running iOS as normal.

This isn't a hardware defect or a broken install. It's just mediocre software, nothing more. This isn't even that glitchy. All those things don't usually happen at once, although they are recurring - including for friends on different device generations, ruling out unlucky hardware and moon rays.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#518

Post by from »

Apocryphon wrote: post #515
from wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

The U.S. itself is also pursuing tech antitrust. This is a global phenomenon. https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/40669/apple-faces-us-an... https://macdailynews.com/2022/07/19/facing-stalemate-backers... https://www.reuters.com/legal/legalindustry/antitrust-vetera...

These are mostly class action suits that will result in a settlement. Antitrust enforcement in America usually just means the company will sell some of its divisons (maybe Google sells the ad business). Half the push for tech regulation comes from Republicans looking to "own" the Democrats. This EU law would not fly at all in America.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#519

Post by joe__f »

To my understanding, the EU cookie law has mostly been met with malicious compliance; now I get a pop-up window on nearly every web page I visit asking me if I'm happy to accept their tracking cookies.

Does anyone have thoughts on how big tech might comply to this new digital markets act maliciously?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#520

Post by bluepizza »

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #394
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

> Use existing hardware and software features without competitive prejudice. E.g. NFC What this will mean for me as an iPhone user: instead of using Apple Pay which is seamlessly integrated in my phone, watch and desktop OS, I will instead have to use my bank's terrible HTML-based 'app' to perform contactless payments, making it 100 times less convenient. This probably will make me switch back to using my bank card.…

You can also use another bank.
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