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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#491

Post by Dagonfly »

> The gatekeeper shall not be prevented from taking, to the extent that they are strictly necessary and proportionate, measures to ensure that third-party software applications or software application stores do not endanger the integrity of the hardware or operating system provided by the gatekeeper, provided that such measures are duly justified by the gatekeeper.

A lot of Apple's system design will hinge on this paragraph. They might still be able to require some form of Notarization. I'd welcome that. Keep the Security through code signing and a strong permission system. Allowing other App Stores to set their own review process and "guidelines".

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#492

Post by jwarden »

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

The idea seems good. But after GDPR my confidence in EU lawmakers ability to craft truly well-thought-out tech legislation is low.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#493

Post by Vespasian »

GoOnThenDoTell wrote: post #393
ls15 wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sony's market capitalization exceeds €75bn (the threshold over which the regulation applies).

Is there something to stop worthless shell companies from shielding the parent company's size

Hopefully existing regulations that prevent companies from hiding behind shells.

Otherwise any regulation could be skirted by having a constantly revolving roster of fronts that import your product.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#494

Post by Apocryphon »

Dagonfly wrote: post #491

> The gatekeeper shall not be prevented from taking, to the extent that they are strictly necessary and proportionate, measures to ensure that third-party software applications or software application stores do not endanger the integrity of the hardware or operating system provided by the gatekeeper, provided that such measures are duly justified by the gatekeeper. A lot of Apple's system design will hinge on this pa…

Apple definitely can do more for iOS user security beyond App Store review, and much casual commentary overlooks that. Not to mention, given how the EU seems to be fairly pro-consumer protection, alternative app store guidelines will probably be subject to regulator scrutiny as well.

A lot of the doomsday scenarios about Facebook creating an app store to invasively track people seem to forget that regulators don't like that, nor their respective monopolistic practices, either. I don't think they'll be able to get away with creating an user-tracking scammy app store and then taking their existing ubiquitously-used apps off of the official App Store without drawing the ire of the EU.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#495

Post by mschuster91 »

colinmhayes wrote: post #437
buscoquadnary wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. Further it seems more like a moat to keep anyone else from getting as big as these "digital gatekeepers" are as suddenly when you get to a certain size you have an enormous expense. If these companies really are that large that they have to get special laws for them i…

I don’t think the EU has the ability to break up American companies. I guess they could try to ban them from operating in the EU, but that would pretty much nuke diplomatic relations with the US so it’s hard for me to see it happening.

Oh we absolutely can do that. Microsoft barely avoided that fate over their antics with Internet Explorer back in the days.

Anti-American company sentiments are high across Europe, especially when it comes to big tech companies. Our people are sick of US companies playing wild west and stomping all over regulations - AirBnB and Uber caused the most public backlash here (AirBnB because of people complaining that they were priced out of their homes and illegal hotel-style operations disrupting their lives, Uber because taxi drivers have pretty good lobby connections), followed by Facebook (which was mostly a topic for privacy nerds). Also, we have not forgotten who caused the 2008 financial crisis and who keeps dodging tax and labor laws while the taxpayers are left to deal with the followup costs.

Pay up and behave or get kicked out, GDPR was just the beginning (and once we get the Irish authorities to behave, your companies are done). The EU bureaucracy is like a big tanker ship, slow as molasses, but once it is moving it is not stoppable other than by going out of its way.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#496

Post by gostsamo »

dane-pgp wrote: post #485
gostsamo wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing stops you of staying in the garden though. Just don't install anything Apple and you'd be golden.

At first I thought you had missed a word or two ("don't install anything unapproved by Apple"?), but then I decided this was deliberate as you're making a reference to Adam and Eve.

well, it was honest mistake, but I like your interpretation

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#497

Post by bubblethink »

brtkdotse wrote: post #185
yoavm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, an iPhone that complies with these demands is actually the first iPhone I'd ever consider paying for. I wonder if this might actually increase adoption.

It’s not a popular opinion around here, but the reason I like my iPhone is _because_ it’s a walled garden. It just works, reliably, without surprises, for years on end.

It's an extremely popular opinion. It's the tech grandma phenomenon. A lot of people in tech want to optimise for their grandmas. So whenever something like this is proposed, the standard response is, 'But what about my grandma ?'. It's a variation of the 'But what about the kids ?' argument.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#498

Post by colechristensen »

cm2187 wrote: post #444
buscoquadnary wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. Further it seems more like a moat to keep anyone else from getting as big as these "digital gatekeepers" are as suddenly when you get to a certain size you have an enormous expense. If these companies really are that large that they have to get special laws for them i…

How do you break up the iphone? You create one company with a separate model of iphone for each country?

Make the App Store a separate company from the one that sells you the phone and OS.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#499

Post by _the_inflator »

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

I am still excited about Apple's answer to this. They have been extremely creative so far in mitigating rules.

I believe that they will find a way to somehow undermine these rulings. EU hasn't won yet.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#500

Post by warkdarrior »

piaste wrote: post #449
judge2020 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the first two are very important questions. For example, if I make $500 “unhackablePhone”, where it literally doesn’t run web apps and every app is vetted by top-talent security researchers for weeks, and then I sell billions of these devices, do I then have to open up the ecosystem to allow anyone to be able to take a phone, punch in the passcode, and install a third party App Store? This is synonymous with the curr…

> This is synonymous with the current iPhone situation as many people only buy it for the benefit of Apple screening everything that can run on their phone I would love to read some surveys on this matter, because I highly doubt that security/privacy is a significant factor for more than a few percent points of iPhone buyers. (I base this hypothesis on the fact that, in virtually every field of technology, end users…

Apple's advertising for the last few years has continuously focused on privacy. There must be some interest from iPhone buyers if Apple spends their advertising money this way.
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