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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#471

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

does anyone know when the messaging interoperability comes into force? i am really anxious to have this work finally

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#472

Post by MichaelCollins »

KerrAvon wrote: post #365
makeitdouble wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that’s really how it rolls out, doesn’t it also mean that Safari wasn’t viable on itself and nobody wanted to use it in the first place ? Apple is no underdog anymore, if their browser couldn‘t compete on its own merit I won’t be crying a river over it. Firefox, while mired with its own problems, is another story; but I don’t see Mozilla losing from this decision.

“This website only works on Chrome.”

C-w

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#473

Post by carapace »

piker wrote: post #219
josephg wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see how your walled garden is threatened by giving Melbourne Trams the ability to use the NFC chip in my phone to pay for rides. Or threatened by Amazon having the ability to add an in-app purchase button to their iPhone app which uses my saved Amazon payment options. I’m sure apple will fight this tooth and nail, but it’s my phone. I paid for it. I want to be able to do what I want with my device.

Because it requires the devotion of Apple's resources to supporting non-Apple things. It will necessarily degrade certain experiences away from those that Apple would provide without the regulation.

Apple has a bajillion dollars and cheats their own engineers.

> Apple is the world's largest technology company by revenue, the world's largest technology company by total assets,[454] and the world's second-largest mobile phone manufacturer after Samsung.[455][456]

> In its fiscal year ending in September 2011, Apple Inc. reported a total of $108 billion in annual revenues—a significant increase from its 2010 revenues of $65 billion—and nearly $82 billion in cash reserves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc.#Finance

And then...

> In re: High-Tech Employee Antitrust Litigation (U.S. District Court, Northern District of California 11-cv-2509 [10]) is a class-action lawsuit on behalf of over 64,000 employees of Adobe, Apple Inc., Google, Intel, Intuit, Pixar and Lucasfilm (the last two are subsidiaries of Disney) against their employer alleging that their wages were repressed due to alleged agreements between their employers not to hire employees from their competitors.[11][12] The case was filed on May 4, 2011 by a former software engineer at Lucasfilm and alleges violations of California's antitrust statute, Business and Professions Code sections 16720 et seq. (the "Cartwright Act"); Business and Professions Code section 16600; and California's unfair competition law, Business and Professions Code sections 17200, et seq. Focusing on the network of connections around former Apple CEO Steve Jobs, the Complaint alleges "an interconnected web of express agreements, each with the active involvement and participation of a company under the control of Steve Jobs...and/or a company that shared at least one member of Apple's board of directors." The alleged intent of this conspiracy was "to reduce employee compensation and mobility through eliminating competition for skilled labor."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#474

Post by bluSCALE4 »

judge2020 wrote: post #350
sfe22 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like 1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment sys…

the first two are very important questions. For example, if I make $500 “unhackablePhone”, where it literally doesn’t run web apps and every app is vetted by top-talent security researchers for weeks, and then I sell billions of these devices, do I then have to open up the ecosystem to allow anyone to be able to take a phone, punch in the passcode, and install a third party App Store? This is synonymous with the curr…

"assuming Apple almost never allows known exploits to exist on the most up-to-date iOS release"

That's a false assumption.

At the end of the day, consumers aren't children. If they so choose to destroy what the manufacturer gives them, that is their choice.

I did some cool things with early Android that made the phone tailored to me. If I wanted stock, it was just a reflash away. This is the way.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#475

Post by x0x0 »

wussboy wrote: post #407
LeanderK wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much welcome this legislation (and I use an iPhone). How would you approach this otherwise? The EU probably can't break up Google or Apple (how would this even look like?) and the walled gardens are clearly a market failure, including apples fat margins. You mention details, but regulation can be well made and just continuing the status quo is also bad. All regulations open up questions but it's not the wild w…

“I oppose this legislation that will bring massive good because I can imagine a few edge cases that have almost certainly been addressed but weren’t explicitly stated in the summary I glanced at.” This type of comment is everywhere on the Internet and completely predictable.

Plus an inability to accept that there will be corner cases and some drawbacks, and that the best you can do with legislation is have the good well outweigh the bad.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#476

Post by leereeves »

judge2020 wrote: post #359
frostburg wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Users will just elect not to do that if they want to benefit from your curation.

The selling point for this theoretical device is that, even if someone steals your passcode, it can’t be hacked. This enabled evil maid (or customs processors, nation-state agencies, etc) attacks on the most vulnerable users looking to have defense-in-depth. To avoid this it seems you’d either be forced to sell it at an insane markup (to avoid having too many users) or means test people to make sure they don’t purcha…

You wouldn't need to do anything to prevent people from buying it.

The restrictions inherent in the device (including only having a few apps that have been thoroughly reviewed by security researchers) would keep most people away.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#477

Post by dmitrygr »

bloppe wrote: post #81

It blows my mind how many people have bought into Apple's position on this. No, Apple restricting your freedom does not afford you greater security. You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. If you're not confident in your ability to tell shady from legit, just stick to the App Store. Don't demand that Apple treat the rest of us like children just because that's how you would like to be treated.

> You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software.

You clearly do not play tech support to elderly family members, or have kids

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#479

Post by jszymborski »

buscoquadnary wrote: post #411
tirpen wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these rules apply only to companies above a certain size, both in number of users and revenue. Those get classified as "digital gatekeepers" and they are the companies that have to comply with extra requirements. So no, this will not affect startups and harm innovation, it will just force the monopolistic behemoths to play nice and cease actively harming innovation.

It also starts to bother me quite a bit when we go from treating everyone equal before the law to creating certain requirements based on other factors. Further it seems more like a moat to keep anyone else from getting as big as these "digital gatekeepers" are as suddenly when you get to a certain size you have an enormous expense. If these companies really are that large that they have to get special laws for them i…

It's the difference between equality and equity.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#480

Post by a4a4a4a4 »

fariszr wrote: post #415
a4a4a4a4 wrote: post #194

I'm not sure how I feel about this. My gut instinct is that opening these things can lead to a ton of malware and fake app stores, which will lead to a not-insignificant number of people being victimized. I'm also annoyed that the EU produces effectively 0 innovative tech, and subsequently has very suppressed tech salaries, but is so ready to regulate the American companies that make the world go 'round.

> I'm also annoyed that the EU produces effectively 0 innovative tech, and subsequently has very suppressed tech salaries, but is so ready to regulate the American companies that make the world go 'round Because its almost impossible to compete? These companies have so many resources, its impossible for any local competitor to compete. Amazon can just crash the prices till the competition dies, Google can just not al…

> Because its almost impossible to compete?

Explain the number of American unicorns and the (almost) complete lack of European unicorns then? Somehow American companies and startups find ways to compete and be relevant, and it just does not happen in Europe.

If you could snap your fingers and force Apple and Google to implement this today, these new markets (app stores and browsers for iOS) would be 99% filled by American companies.

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